Breaking Into Sound: Behind the Board in Music, Film, and Legacy // Tom Gordon #10251

In this episode of Breaking the Biz, we go behind the scenes with legendary producer and audio engineer Tom Gordon, whose 30+ year career has shaped the sound of icons across music, film, and television. From recording with Ozzy Osbourne, Dr. Dre, and the Beach Boys to engineering Emmy-winning projects and independent films, Tom brings a deep well of experience and an unmatched ear for excellence.

We explore Tom’s journey through the heart of the entertainment industry—how he’s blended artistry and technical mastery while staying grounded in community. As a former educator, session drummer, and charity album producer, Tom has dedicated his career not just to crafting hits, but to building spaces where others can thrive. His work with organizations supporting juvenile diabetes research, music education, and Native American scholarships speaks to a broader mission: using sound to make a difference.

Whether you’re curious about audio engineering, fascinated by backstage stories, or passionate about creating a more inclusive entertainment industry, this episode with Tom Gordon hits all the right notes.

Join our conversation on social media:

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https://www.linkedin.com/company/18149713

Interested in being a guest speaker? blieberman@yicunity.org

Transcript

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Hi, my name is Tom Gordon. I'm a recording engineer, producer and educator from Reno, Nevada. I know, weird right? I'm based out of here in Reno, but I I'm a graduate from the recording arts program at USC. I graduated in 1991, came back to Reno, and since then I am now the chief engineer for the band Whitesnake at David Coverdale Studio, Hook City. I'm the chief engineer at a independent studio in Nevada called Mirage Sound Labs, which is the longest running commercial studio in the state, and I'm the Recording Arts professor at the University of Nevada, Reno. Here on Breaking the Biz Podcast[AI Narrator] - Stay tuned for today's episode of Breaking the Biz, an informative podcast where we dive into the world of entertainment by interviewing seasoned professionals who have made their mark in the industry. Gain invaluable insights as they share their personal journeys, offering advice on navigating the dynamic landscape of the entertainment industry. Whether you're an aspiring actor, musician, filmmaker, author, animator, or any creative soul, tune in for expert career guidance, insider tips and firsthand accounts on breaking into the entertainment industry. Get ready to unlock the secrets behind successful careers and fuel your own passion for the limelight. Please remember to like this video and to subscribe to our channels for more great conversations.[Host] - Greetings from Breaking the Biz. Brought to you by Yes I Can Unity Through Music & Education. I'm William Felber, your navigator through the intriguing universe of the entertainment industry as revealed by the visionaries and creators who bring it to life. Stay tuned as we delve into diverse insights from the forefront of entertainment, hearing from pioneers, creators and agents of change. Prepare for a journey filled with tales of innovation, resilience and the undying quest for artistic brilliance.[Bret - Moderator] - I want to welcome everyone to Breaking the Biz. I'm extremely excited and we are fortunate to have time with Tom Gordon, who is a music producer, has an extremely rich background in doing everything as he shared a music producer, an engineer, an educator. He's worked with Ozzy Osbourne, Dr. Dre, the Beach Boys, Willie Nelson. His work spans various genres. It's very unique to find someone who can handle everything from rock, classic metal, hip hop. Working with Ice Cube, I mean, it is insane when we kind of we'll go down memory lane and hear how he's worked with so many amazing people. On top of that, he's won an Emmy Award, the effect of 100's beautiful mind, which is an award for outstanding educators in Northern Nevada. He has a commitment to music, to education, and that's obviously evident in what he's doing with giving back to us and giving back as an educator and in, in the college. But Tom, I want to thank you for joining us. And I want to know, when were you first exposed to music? Like, when did you just fall in love with. First off, thank you for having me. Secondly, everyone who's here, thank you everyone. Everyone who's chimed in. I'm glad you guys came to join us today. Thank you so much. I know I, I'm. I'm not an A lister, but I appreciate you taking the time to be attentive. I was born in a musical family. My, my parents were in. Involved in like musical theater and my dad was a light man and said, don't do lights. So here I am, not doing lights. But so first time I did, I did something that recording engineers do where you listen to the same song over and over again. Was like easter. In the fourth grade. I was given a 45 of the song Convoy. And it was this really silly song about CB radios. And I was really into CB radios and I played that out, that 145 over and over again for about seven hours that day. And I'm. I was became obsessed with listening to the same song, which is part of the requirement for anyone being a sound engineer. You can't get sick of a song, especially in seven hours. That's just when it's getting interesting, when you're crafting music. But, um, so that was my first clue. But my father, who worked at one of the showrooms here in Reno as a light person, and he was a light person for the stars, the Rat Pack, he did spotlights for sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr. All these folks. So we got a, a hand me down reel to reel tape recorder from the club. And I was just fascinated. It's like, so the tape, it's like a cassette tape. It's like there's tape on a reel and somehow sound gets stuck on this piece of plastic with rust glued to one side. How does that work? So I was just obsessed with this tape recorder and I started recording all my friends in my garage and recording my own audition tapes to get into schools and stuff. And I just thought the process was amazing. And I went to USC on a percussion scholarship, but I switched to recording arts. It was a brand new program when I was the 13th person to enroll in that program when it was created and went into the whole production room instead of the percussion. So talk me through. You know, that takes me back. Tape to tape, reel to reel. Right. Was that what they were teaching when you got into the engineering aspect at usc. As a matter of fact, it was. I was the last generation of recording students that learned 100% analog technology. And that meant two inch multi track tape machines on very large framed SSL consoles. And as many people have joked, the University of Southern California is often referred to as the University of Spoiled Children. It's the University of social connections as well. The we were, we had one of these giant SSL consoles there. And miraculously, there was this amazing studio in Reno that had just been built called Granny's House, which was meant to be a bed and breakfast, eight bedroom, two studio complex that people could come work at their grandma's house. Before home studios were as prevalent as they are now. And so we had the same tape machine and console at USC as they had at Granny's House. So as soon as I graduated, they're like, you know this desk? You. You know that tape machine? We need help. Yes, that's how you get the gig. And same thing. I'm also the private engineer for Michael of the Beach Boys, and I knew his console because we had it at Granny's house. And his is a neve desk that was the broadcast console of the Grand Old Opry. And so the fact that I was the only person in Northern Nevada who knew how to fly this thing, he's like, you're our guy. Come, come here now. I'm like, okay. So, yeah, it was really fortunate understanding this kind of vintage technology. And I try to teach as many people about it before the, the. That knowledge base vanishes forever. We still have a 2 inch Ampex machine at Mirage and all these different formats, and we do a lot of transfers for folks so they don't lose their analog masters, but boy, what a pain in the butt. So all you students there who have never had to align a tape machine, thank your lucky stars that you haven't had to waste the hour of your life with a tweaker aligning every channel. It's about 250 calibrations to align an analog tape machine before you can hit record. So that was supposed to happen at the beginning of every session. So every time Dr. Dre came to Reno, I had to align his tape machine and calibrate it for the 50 reels of tape that were shipped up from Los Angeles and make sure that all the levels were going to be consistent to the tape machine that this stuff was started on at Skip Sailor in Los Angeles or at Dre's home studio. So now you just open up your daw and everything shows up calibrated. There's no alignment pro process at all. So one thing I teach is, yes, analog tape has a vibe. Analog tape has a tone that is very fun. But it also is a very expensive boutique filter. And if you can afford it, more power to you. Yeah, I feel like you have to be one of those really large bands who have that bankroll to go, oh, yeah, let's do a, you know, let's. Let's go analog and do it all. So, yeah, have fun. Dave Grohl. Yeah. Yeah. That's the type of person I was thinking. Yeah. So it just shows you how technology has advanced. And, you know, you mentioned your plugins. Everything's ready, ready to go. Obviously, the work that you guys do and the knowledge you have. You mentioned everyone has a studio now and everyone feels like they could be their own producer. And that's obviously not the case when you actually work with someone who has. Knows the ins and the outs and can make you sound like this to make you sound like that. So there is a reason why AI can do certain things, but that ear, that human is still needed. I also love how you were the one who knew how to do the reel to reel and you got a job right out of school because a lot of people think, oh, I graduate and a job is going to just drop on me. You mentioned you. I look out immensely, 100% on that. But you mentioned something else that's important. When you are in college, the networking and working around people is very key because you never know. And I'm sure you've had a long career, you've probably come back and, you know, rekindled relationships or people have reached out to. You said, you know, I was also at usc. I'm just curious if you could kind of talk about some of the doors that maybe have opened or doors you open for others just based off of networking, just from college. So I was the first person to create a USC chapter of the Audio Engineering Society. Well, I was part of a team that created it. And the person who I did it with, who's another engineer, Ray Silva, I went to school with, he and I actually have been friends for 30 years. He moved to Reno 15 years ago. And we are the ones now building the recording arts program at unr. And since we came from the exact same school, we are, you know, there's no daylight between our opinions on how to build this program. So that has been a relationship I've been fostering for 30 years. In about an hour, I'm about to see another friend of mine from USC who started an independent record label in New Jersey and the longest running independent Americana music festival in the US that lasted 23 years that I was the stage manager for. He's coming to visit Reno and he's going to be here right after we finish this. You may have heard of a filmmaker named Brian Singer who did the Usual Suspects, the X Men films, Bohemian Rhapsody. He was the creator of the TV show House. He was my neighbor my freshman year at usc and we've been friends since school. So many relationships I made in college with like minded people in the recording arts department has lasted to this day and become career shaping relationships between all the acts I worked with at Black Potato. These were, you know, it was an indie festival, but you, so you couldn't be signed to play our festival, but a lot of famous people's side projects played there. So we had members of the Almond Brothers and the Band and Barenaked Ladies doing their little fun side projects. And you're like, I never would have had the. Oh, Peter Gabriel's rhythm section played our band. But Peter wasn't there. You know, I'm like, okay, these are all just a listers that I also made relationships with. So the networking is enormous. It's trade shows like the NAMM show or the Audio Engineering Society convention were the staples on where I would find people of similar interest and start networking with them. Because boy, if you are the only audio nerd or music nerd in the room, you, you run out of friends quickly, don't you? And you're like, you know, I'm really into this. And none of your friends are like, well, we're happy for you. And you know, there are a lot of friends I grew up with who went different directions and I got, in fact, we were playing Dungeons and Dragons with two of my friends growing up and I got a phone call from my first internship at a recording studio. I'm like, guys, I gotta go. My career just called me and this was my first foray, was my first official internship into a gig. And it's not I loved my friends any less. But you know, my, my calling showed up and I had to go, go take it. Let's talk about your calling because obviously it's music. So you, you are able to do the reels. That's your first job. Talk me through how you get to some of, some of these acts and, and kind of that progression. I know we could probably Talk an entire 24 hours with the amount of bands that you have worked with. But I. I want to hear some stories from. From Ozzy. Rest in peace. I want to hear some ice cube and some Dr. Dre for sure. Yeah. Well, that was all thanks to the studio. Because back in the early 90s, you still had to travel to a commercial studio to get really professional recordings, especially very good drum tones. You really didn't have portable electronics yet the way we have it now, with a good sounding room all in one place. So now you can show up with a laptop and a drum set in a good room and get a great drum recording. That, that was not nearly as easy back then. So we had this gorgeous room and people who were trying to get away from their distractions at home would come get a take a little vacation and record at our studio. So the first gig I did there, and some of you who will know who this is, some of you will not, was a group called Milli Vanilli. So for those of you who are going, oh God, yeah, you're right, that is the correct response. For those of you who are not familiar with Milli Vanilli, they were the fourth highest selling act in history at that time. Two gorgeous African American guys who danced and lip synced. They won the Grammy for Best new artist in 1991 and then had to give their Grammy back when it was discovered that they were lip syncing. And unfortunately, the people at our studio were the only people dumb enough to take those two on to do an actual follow up album with them singing. And so when I asked my first day at Granny's house and like, so who are you working with? And they said Milli Vanilli, I thought they were joking. I laughed out loud. And they're like, no, really? I'm like, oh, geez. Love Milli Vanilla. Best band ever. Yeah, let's do Billy Vanilli. And to be honest, that has been the gift that keeps on giving. There's been a VH1 behind the music on Milli Vanilli that I'm in. And then the Paramount plus feature film about Milli Vanilli that came out a year and a half ago. I'm in the end of that too. And I'm still very good friends with Fabrice. Rob Platus unfortunately took his own life about 15 years ago. So that was. Hey, I learned a very important thing on that record. There was almost half a million dollars in studio time that was never paid for. It was meant to be recouped on the, on the sales of the record, which is called A Spec Deal. So if you're entering into a project with somebody and they're like, well, we only have like 10 bucks for you to do your time now. But man, we're going to give you points on the record. On the back end. There's no guarantee there's a back end, you know, so you're like, all right, well, I'm going to donate. So we donated 10 months of studio time and totaling almost half a million. And then that management team kind of got pulled over for doing naughty things. And then that studio was left holding a bill for almost half a million dollars that no one ever paid. And the album came out off of a bootleg and sold 2000 copies worldwide and tanked. So good times. That was. That was a good opening volley into the recording industry. And I learned that Don't Do Spec Deals then followed. That was the Nelson twins. For those of you who might have remember, the long haired Nelson twins. So clearly we had a hair requirement for a while. Right after that we had Boyz II Men. We did Boyz II Men's second album. So I did 50 Candles and that cover of Yesterday with them. And they're the ones who turned me on to Snapple. That was on their writer. I'd never heard of Snapple before. And they're like, oh, you gotta try this. And it's like, can't imagine Snapple was ever a new product. But it was. And boys, to mentor me onto it. Then we had Brian, Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden. We did a solo album of his called Balls to Picasso. And Bruce is an astonishing musician. I almost got Bruce to sing a jingle for a local hardware store. That's my ultimate fish that got away story. And then we had Willie Nelson and Merle Haggard doing an all star country song for Special Olympics with Merle Haggard, Hoyt Axton, Johnny Rodriguez and Freddie Powers that I got to engineer. And you know, I know this is an educational scenario, but I can say that I've turned down marijuana from the two greatest sources in the music industry, Willie Nelson and Dr. Dre. I've had someone kick me when I've said that. So, um, But I was trying to mix the song and I only had 45 minutes to mix the song. And the producer, the. The writer, Freddie Powers, is saying to Willie right over my shoulder, those boys smoke. And I don't know. That's what was Willie. And Freddie's like, I don't know, I haven't asked him. So Willie comes up and goes, you want some, son? And I'm like, I'm Trying to mix your song. Thanks. Then we had. Oh, gosh. Michael Martin Murphy, another country legend. And then we did voiceover works with, like, Peter Graves and Cliff Robertson and Richard Krena. It was like it was the only production house in a small market. So everything came to us because there weren't other options in Northern Nevada. So that's why I had these weird smatterings. But then the big one comes, Dr. Dre. He's trying to get away from all his distractions at home. You know, they put this giant SSL in his house, and he can never get to it because his phone calls, and it's family, and it's this distraction. So when he booked the studio, he was working on a King T record and trying to kind of try out the facility. And he came to Reno with an entire entourage of, like, 16 people that didn't fit in our. In our studio. So they had to book a hotel and then do rental trucks to vans to get to us. And when you meet Dr. Dre, you are assigned a nickname. And you can't tell with me it right now, but I'm six foot eight, I'm very tall, and back when I met Dre, my hair was down to here in 1998. And this is around the same time Howard Stern had hit the scene as the new shock jock, Right. And the movie Private Parts had just come out. So Dre looks at me and goes, you're Stern? And I'm like, what? No, no, I don't want to be Stern. But as luck would have it, I became Stern. So in the hip hop world, that became my nickname. And I'm like, oh, geez. Okay. And the head engineer looked like the actor Steven Seagal, so he was nicknamed Seagal Richard Huerdia, who would be another person to have on your show here? So we did one session for King T, and he loved it. He's like that. We got a lot of work done. A lot of work done. We'll be back. So he came back three more times to work on the 2001 album. And Eminem came up six months before they dropped the Slim Shady record to do his feature on it's the Dr. Before he was Eminem. So it was like, well, this is our new artist, Marshall. He's going to be really big in six months. We're like, oh, well, hope so. Good luck, Marshall. You know, it's like. And then should have done the spec deal on. On Amazon, right? Exactly. And it was funny. Dre predicted that 2001 was going to ship Platinum, meaning that there was going to be over 1 million pre orders for that album in the various formats of cassette, CD and vinyl. And he was right, because he's a smart cookie, that Andre. And then they came back one more time to work on the Eminem show, But I wasn't on that date. I'd already gone freelance and moved forward. But the story, there is one Dr. Dre story that I always tell my students and my clients is it was around this time, 1999, that they were in Reno working on the album. And there's a co producer. Oh, I. I should ask you, can we drop swear words? Oh, yeah, you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll be quoting for historical accuracy. 100. Okay, great. So October. And what they didn't know about me and you guys don't know about me is I'm a huge fanatic of the Halloween film. So I imagine there's a few fans in the class that love Michael Myers and the Halloween films, right? And yeah, I have the full costume. I have. I had a custom mask made, and I actually auditioned to play Michael and Rob Zombie's 2007 reboot of the Halloween franchise. So I. I do Michael very well. And so I was asking the co producer, Mel man, who's like, are you guys a fan of horror films? And they're like, oh, yes, during. We love horror films. I said, well, are you a fan of the. Of the Halloween franchise? And they're like, oh, Michael Myers. Oh, yeah, that shit's scary, Stern. I'm like, oh, well, I may have a surprise for you. And they're like, oh, really? What's that? And I said, oh, you'll. You'll know. You'll know. So two days for Halloween, I. I show up to the studio with my costume, and I go to the bodyguard, who is this former Marine drill sergeant named Sarge, who was also the chef. So he was in the kitchen cooking dinner for everyone. And I said, okay, Chef, it's just me. No guns. All right? And he's like, oh, go ahead, sir, and have fun. So the studio at Granny's house was enormous. The huge 14 foot long SSL console with this giant room around it that. That all 16 people in his entourage could fit in the control room. And so Dre was. Who's a great engineer, is pushing faders. They were just recording a vocal. So they had a. In our giant tracking room with a vocal mic setup. And the bass player, the guitar player, the keyboard player, they're all in the control room listening on speakers. So they don't have to wear headphones so they can groove with the track on speakers. And then everyone else is there listening to this playback of a vocal they just cut. And I put on the Michael Myers costume, and I go into the incredibly dark tracking room, and there are a bunch of baffles around a vocal mic. And I stand half obscured behind one of the baffles at a extreme diagonal. And all I can see is Dr. Dre at the console doing a rough mix and two other people who are not paying attention. And about two or three minutes later, eventually Dre sees me. He's, like, pushing faders. Looks up, and he's like, to the other people who are off axis. And I'm like, this is my chance. So I. When Dre turned away, I ducked out into the hallway. So when I. When he turned back around, I had vanished. It was perfect. And so I started walking down the hallway, and I hear this way, Michael, you know, in the. From the control room. So I count to three, and due to my long wingspan, I was able to open the door. And to them, it looked like it opened by itself. So I open the door, and the place falls silent, right? I count to three. I right, face into the room, and the place explodes. Half of them are screaming, half of them are laughing their heads off. And the bass player, the fabulous Mike Alfonso, who now produces Christina Aguilera, throws his bass off and starts running away between the analog tape machine and the outboard island. And sofa's full of people. And I'm like, someone grabbed the bass. Please, that's an expensive device. Grab the bass or Olympic or something. I can't remember what it was. But the guitar player grabbed the bass. And Mike is not waiting. He is getting the hell out of there. And I. I do the logical thing. I chase him, right? So I'm. I'm doing the Myers walk. I'm totally gaining on him. And all these people are in his way on the sofa. And then he gets around to the DJ gear and all the rental synthesizers, and he's in a hurry, but he's not going to knock anything over. You know, he's. This is. But he's. He's really trying to get the hell out of there. And I'm just making the curves and catching up to him. And finally there's a straight shot between the synthesizers and the door, between the outboard gear and Dre at the desk. And Mike sprints to the studio door. And we've done a full loop basically behind the control room. And at this point, Dr. Dre has stood up and is watching all this transpire behind him. And right when Mike gets to the door and gets out, I am like neck and neck to Dre. So he's looking this way, and I'm marching this way. And I. As soon as I get right, I. Right face. And I just look down on Dre, nose to sternum. Probably not the smartest thing I've ever done, but I. I. Yeah, I'm like. I'm, like two inches away from Dre dressed as Michael Myers. And Dr. Dre looks up to me and says these words I will take to the grave. Ah, Stern, left face, walk out. Yeah, I never break character when I'm dressed in the costume, unless there's police involved. Obviously went and took the mask off in the bathroom, went to the kitchen and told Sarge when he missed, and he was very bummed because, oh, I should have gone in there. So after five minutes of recanting the story, I go back into the control room, standing ovation. And Mailman, the producer is like, that wasn't scary, Stern. You know, people with guns in the parking lot, escape sail. That shit's scary. I'm like, I get it, I get it. Fine, fine, fine. But they started writing a beat that had the Halloween theme in it. The John Carpenter, which is originally in 5, 4. So rapping in 54 doesn't flow quite as well, right? So they swung it. I'm like, well, that's cool. That's way cool. But it's not going to see a lot of day. We worked on over 40 songs in that period of time, one of which was sold to Ice Cube, which is why I'm on the Ice Cube album. I never met Cube, but my credit transferred when they sold the song. But a year later, when everything was finished and I went and picked up my copy, it's track 15, Murder Inc. That's how Murder, Inc. Became Murder, Inc. On 2001, was me showing up as Michael Myers and scaring everyone. So that's my contribution to pop culture. That is, I was going to say, one of the coolest stories. I was hoping that it wasn't going to turn into a punch from Dr. Dre or him. Right, right, right. Is this a Suge Knight moment? Like, you know, Dre has the best sense of humor. He is a sweetheart. And I. And he is so impressive to watch produce. You know, he's kind of a ringleader, trying to coordinate all these very talented people, and he just surrounds himself with the best team. It's very impressive. But he has a good sense of humor. Like, oh, to that point, I. I showed up, and. And he started. Everyone's calling me Stern. And if you haven't seen the movie Private Parts, they always refer to the call letters of the radio station wnbc, because that's the way Stern was told how to say it. I didn't know it. I hadn't seen the film. And after about a day of awkward laughing, he's like, stern, have you not seen Private Parts? I go, I'm sorry, Dr. Drew. I have not. He's like, larry, his assistant, his personal assistant, comes up and goes, get Private Parts for Stern. Now, this guy. This is before the Internet, right? This guy has to go find a VHS copy of Private Parts in a town he doesn't know without the Internet. And he was back in 20 minutes with the VHS tape. That's why he was Dre's guy, right? And so I have my copy of private parts that Dr. Dre bought me. And there was a jazz fusion group I was listening to called Naked City that had. And protocol. If you're ever working with an artist at the level of Dr. Dre or all these people, it is best practice not to listen to other people's music when you're working on theirs. That's just a courtesy to the artist. And unless the artist asks you to pull something else up, that's fine. But I was doing a late night cleanup after a session till 2 or 3 in the morning, and I was listening to my own tunes after everyone left, but I forgot to put the disc away at the end of the night. And this album covers a cadaver head on a plate. It's a pretty brutal jazz fusion group called Naked City, fronted by John Zorn. And Dr. Dre looks at this and goes, stern, what the. What the hell is this? I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, Dr. Dre. It's a jazz group called Naked City. He's like, no, Stern, what the is this? I'm like, you're right. I'm sorry. So as his farewell gift, I bought him a copy of that cd, and I left it on the console form the last. The morning of the last session. And he's like, ah, Stern, you shouldn't have. Oh, really? You shouldn't have. That is a great. A great story. So you work with all these artists you mentioned, moving on to doing, you know, at this time. Is this all at Granny's house? And then still Granny's house? Yeah. Okay, talk me through the transition to, you know, your. What you're doing now, right. So a big thing is I discovered around that time that I, I, if I had to compromise my morals to support someone else's morals, that's not a good position to be in. And there was someone involved in the organization that I felt I was compromising my ethics to support theirs. And I had built up enough of a reputation for myself where I was like, I think I. The scariest thing to do once you've had a regular gig for seven and a half years is to go freelance. And in a market as small as Reno, unlike Los Angeles, where there's many studios there and a lot of production, there wasn't. There's only three commercial studios in Reno. And I'm. And I'm leaving the biggest one. I'm like. But home studios are growing at this point. ADATs are kind of big, big still. And D88s and Pro Tools is just beginning to hit the common pulse of music production. So I took a big jump and I went back to a studio I recorded to when I was a kid and found the owner and he's like, oh, I remember you. I recorded you when you were 15. Yeah, well, if you think you can book the studio, we'll give it a facelift. And based on a handshake, I made a new partnership with this Dr. Lawrence Davis, who built this studio initially in 1978 in downtown Reno. And when it was in that location, there was a song that was in a movie called from the movie Endless Love that also ended up in Happy Gilmore called Endless Love. The vocals for Endless Love was recorded at Dr. Davis's studio in Reno because Diana Ross was performing at the club my dad was working at at Harrah's. And if you were on contract with Harrah's for a week, you could not leave town. And they needed her vocal. So they flew Lionel Ritchie up to Reno with the tapes to record at what was called Sunwood at the time. In 1980, that partnership dissolved. And that's the only Academy Award nominated song recorded in Reno, by the way. But then he moved it to a different facility in our sister city, Sparks, in 1982. And it's now the longest running commercial studio in the state at 43 years. And it's a mid sized room, it's half the size of granny's house. And I was like, wow, I gotta get used to the acoustics of this space because I'm so used to the other one. And we had to do a full remodel of the room and I was doing Some live sound in between at the casinos while we were doing the rebuild. And I found out that live sound is a very different beast than studio sound. And I don't like doing it. Some people love the adrenaline of mixing a live show because there's no going back and take two ing it. You know, you're like, you get it or you don't. And if you're a monitor engineer, part of your skill set is feedback abatement and, and, and, and trying to get rid of feedback during a show. And some people think it's the greatest bug hunt in the world. And then they're like, oh, I, I, I, I hear it. What frequency is that? 500. Nailed it. They try to beat their time. Personal best on I got rid of feedback in five seconds, you know, that kind of thing. I'm like, that wasn't fun. I was just mad that I had feedback, you know, and like get me back in the studio as soon as I can. And boy, having the right person, who you are aligned with morally has led to a 25 year relationship and business with him that has gone on as I started the university gig and this gig with Whitesnake. So I'm, I'm talking to you right now from a studio that belongs to the artist David Coverdale. And some of you are, may not be familiar with his work, but he was the lead singer or is the lead singer and the, and the name owner of the band White Snake, which was a very big band in the 80s, late 70s, early 80s, but has been ongoing ever since. And he, he moved to Reno in 88 or more specifically Lake Tahoe, as many do, because the tax structure, we do not have a state tax in Nevada. So a lot of businesses leave California and come here so they don't have to pay the extra taxes. And David, much like Michael of the Beach Boys and Doug Clifford of Creedence Clearwater Revival have all come here for the same. Jeremy Renner, the actor Jeremy Renner is about four, four miles away from me up the hill because of the tax benefits of being in Nevada. So we built a studio here for basically White Snake restoration and reissues. And last week was the release of our final reissue with Warner Brothers and Rhino making box sets of every one of David's albums where one disc is the, the original mix that's been remastered, the second mix is. The second disc is a remix that Chris and I would work on and then the third disc would be like the demos and live outtakes and alternate versions and some of the stuff we took the old songs that we're recording, we're adding new string parts to it with live string players and stuff like that. And then there's a disc called Evolutions where it's a medley of the first 90 seconds of the first demo that goes into 90 seconds of the first pre production recording, into the 90 seconds of the first rough mix, into 90 seconds of the last mix before the final mix. So you can hear how the song grows from its infant stage to its penultimate stage that we nicknamed Evolutions. So we have an Evolutions medley of every song which I stole completely from Peter Gabriel off his SO out his SO box set. He had the same thing called DNA and the Beatles did that on the Anthology. But I don't know which came first, the soapbox set or the Anthology. So we stole it from somebody. And then we have a Blu Ray of all the music videos, some live stuff from that tour, a book, a 60 page book of an interview with David and magazine articles from that era, a story of what was going in that area, all the credits, all the lyrics, and I have to proofread the book. We had usually a poster of the album cover and a recreation of the tour program from that tour whenever that tour happened. And it's about a 60 to 80 box set. And David's fans who were, oh, he was also the lead singer of Deep Purple, the third incarnation of the band Deep Purple. David was the lead singer of. So due to a 50 year career fan base, his people are the people who still buy physical media. They will, they will still buy vinyl, they'll still buy a box set. Where I could probably ask a show of hands, has anyone in this room bought a, a CD in the last year? No. Exactly. Thank you. You just proved my point. Thank you very much. So it's a, it's a very target audience now that's still buying that kind of physical media. And so we are finishing this, this multi. So we've done 11 box sets over the last 10 years here and now that gig is kind of wrapping up and Nevada is getting more film production. So I'm kind of facing a new transition because as this Whitesnake gig is, is, is slowing down, we're trying to reinvent the mirage the, the studio that's been there for 42 years and the property value in Nevada, especially Reno, has just skyrocketed. So many people have left California and come here for all these tax advantages. Now the prices are actually to, to buy a house here are very comparable to San Francisco where they were trying to get away from those prices moving here. And our, our building with the studios in just got bought and they just jacked up our rent a ton of. So with the tax incentives for film, we're now looking at giving our studio an overhaul to focus on film post production which would require something to be able to do dialogue editing, to do a thing called ADR or looping. So when you see a movie, a lot of the dialogue has been re recorded later in a studio because there was a bad delivery or a plane flew over during the take. And that might have been shot in a giant warehouse, but you recorded the new dialogue in a recording studio that doesn't sound like the warehouse. So you now need to be able to mix this new dialogue to match the set location stuff. So ADR is the, the actor coming in and lip syncing to the performance. And then the mixers have to make the ambiences match. So we're, you know, foley is the sound of all the sound effects. So we might at a Foley pit. So it's, it might be another period of reinventing for me just so we can stay in with the new in wave of, of of culture coming into our market. We just have, we, we have a film festival here now that's in the top 5% of film festivals on film freeway called the Cordillera Film Festival. And I was there last weekend and every LA producer I talked to said, you're building a post house in Reno. Keep us informed. They're like, okay, I gotta follow the flow. So in terms of. And I read this in your notes, if someone is trying to get into this industry, be it music, film, audiobooks, whatever, try to try not to reinvent the wheel. Find what's missing in your market. So if there are 8,000 hip hop producers in your market and you like I want to be a hip hop producer, you're gonna have a lot of competition. So you're have to find out what makes you special and what would make you stand out above them. Maybe you can use that hip hop knowledge base towards something else, like game development or something that there isn't a big pool of and a lot of competition with. In Reno. There's one, there's no one engineer here that's really good at reggae. And I was like, man, if a reggae. And there's some like really good reggae acts here in northern Nevada. All of a sudden it was like that there's a market that needs to be filled. We didn't have a rehearsal studio until 10 years ago. And man's, like if I had the money, I would have, I would have been the first person to buy a rehearsal studio and, and build it here because that was what's missing in the market. So doing your homework to find out what's missing in the market makes the job of finding a home much easier. And don't reinvent the wheel. I was going to say that's probably some of the most amazing advice. Right. And it hits two skills that are so needed in the 21st century, which is adaptability and knowing when it is the time to pivot. But even further, Tom, is that entrepreneurial mindset that you have with finding what, where the holes are, where is it where your expertise can shine. You don't want to be oversaturated. You want to be able to stay in your lane, but you got to know where that lane is. So the, you know, in what you're talking about with like Nevada having a rehearsal studio, there's like rehearsal studio where a local band can come in there and, and you know, practice. But then there's also taking it to the next level when you have like a Lady Gaga or you know, someone who's got a huge, huge production and having a large enough room where you can do that, obviously in la, they have to have that. Yeah, that's made in la, right? Exactly right. But you know, knowing where your market, that, that's where And I love, you know, even into the reggae, you've got a huge reggae festival there, the third through the fifth Reggae Rise Up. So if there's any acts you need introductions to, I'm pretty, I got relationships in that reggae realm. Oh, no kidding. That's very good to know. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I, I, I can scratch the back back for you. I got you. Well done. Thank you. So talk me through teaching and you know, the award that you were given for the work that you're doing and maybe some mentors, you're obviously the mentor to them. But is there anybody that comes to mind that has kind of gone through your classes and then gone on to do the amazing style work that you're doing? Well, we do not have a degree program yet. We're developing it. So all my classes that I've been teaching have been electives as part of the music school and we do have a music industry minor but you know, it's it A lot of them have, you know, only recently are getting out there and, and making splashes. So I have a few are. There's one EDM DJ that goes by the name Subdocta who's toured the world, who is like killing it, who's one of my former students, you guys may have heard of Sweetwater. One of my students ended up being one of the lead techs at Sweetwater. And so working with A level stars, the only one, Garrett Raffinelli. And, and, and Aaron was in LA working with like on some of the Katy Perry songs and stuff like that. So a few of them are getting there. One of which one former client of mine who ended up was going to take my class but moved to LA earlier, ended up being a co writer and I kissed a girl for, for her. So it was like, you know, so we, we've had some of them getting out there slowly but surely. We have ironically, an incredibly strong jazz community here because in the 60s we had live showrooms in all the casinos so the likes of Diana Ross could come here and have a live orchestra playing behind them. And it was a place for people who were touring musicians in the 60s and 70s to actually have steady work and buy a house and start a family. So Reno has an enormous amount of talent per capita because either those people are still alive or they've had very talented offspring. And one of the jazz people has blown up quite big. A guy named Brian Landress, who's a low sax player who wins low sax awards in downbeat every year, has his own label in New York and is out there just killing it. But the probably the biggest northern Nevada export is in classical music. There is a guy who is one of the most astonishing choral writers and conductors in the world and is just drop dead gorgeous. His name is Eric Whitaker and he wrote the overture for the Olympics like several years ago. And you're like, this guy came from rural Nevada, Are you kidding? And yeah, and one of my colleagues is someone I grew up with, guy named Chris Fogle. He was at a different high school when I was at it. He ended up being the guy who recorded Jagged Little Pill for Alanis Morissette. And now it's become one of Hollywood's biggest film score guys. So he did Oppenheimer, he did Black Panther, he did the last Olympics. So I have these team of people that are like, wow, we see what you're doing, Tom. And we're going to see. We'll come in and talk when we can. I'm not that I'm friends with, I don't keep in touch with Eric that much. But Chris has been an enormous help and we're building the foundation so these kids have even stronger foundations to Leapfrog from But everyone who's finished the program that hasn't worked with a name person has been able to go out and be productive and make educated decisions on how to make quality work. And so they're actually getting gigs with casinos or touring bands or moving to Los Angeles and getting in the film. I had one guy who was becoming a boom operator in Hollywood until unfortunately he passed away a couple of years ago and he was working his way up into New Line Cinema and stuff and was like, these people don't look like idiots when they get on a site because we gave them the right things to look professional walking in. So it isn't about, you know, what kind of name dropping are you doing? It's more about, do you look like an asshole when you walk in and don't know how to mute a console where the speakers can get blown up when you walk away and they're like, oh no, I'm protecting your speakers. It's the good habits knowing how to wrap a cable correctly. So won't. Not when you unwrap it. So we've serviced a few hundred students by now. I've been teaching at the university since 2007 and we had private classes since 2004. And everyone is like, I've only grown and I've been able to be more effective in whatever environment I'm in. And so they may never make a career out of it, but they're getting better results doing it because they love it. And that's good enough for me. From one instructor to another, I, I, there's nothing better, right, than being a catalyst or a fulcrum and lifting someone up or changing someone's life trajectory just by mentorship, leadership and giving them the tools and seeing a talent and letting them know that you believe in that talent. There's nothing better than that. So you deserve your, your flowers for sure. Tom, I want, I got one last question and then I'm sure there's going to be a few quick questions in the end. And I, I know people would get mad if I didn't ask you. You've seen the, the tape to tape to Pro Tools. Any fear of AI or do you see AI as something, as a tool that can assist what you want to do? The AI saved my butt last year. Here we had to remix an album where the multi tracks were lost. An album recorded in 1977. The Two Inch Masters have been missing for decades and we had set a precedent of having to remix every album for these box sets. And we, we, we had no access to the multi tracks and we were working with, we were trying to get in with Peter Jackson's people who had created a AI unmixing software called MAL for the Beatles get Bat project in New Zealand. And I even talked to the developer of that software who trained Peter Jackson's people at the University of Champaign, University of Illinois, Champaign, Urbana. That's what they did during COVID was invent stem separation for that project. It's a very long, complicated version of it that has no artifacts because they have exact models that they're trying to extract. So it's a, here's a recording of the Beatles, here's a recording of Paul McCartney's voice, remove that. And here's an exact model to look for where if you were using the over the counter stuff, it's like, well, here's a recording of the Beatles and here's a sample of several male vocals that may not be exactly like Paul's but it will get most of it out. But there might be some digital artifacts. So we were getting artifacts left, right and center. We couldn't get a clean stem separation, so we spent two years working with other developers since we were ultimately told the Beatles people could not help us because we weren't the Beatles. So all these other people who are coming at the same problem at different angles using the new AI engines got us home. And we had to combine the output of seven different AI generated stem separation softwares until we got something usable and then hide the artifacts with overdubbing other instruments, adding plugins to reamp things. So AI completely saved my ass two years ago. I know in the right application it's the most powerful tool you can ask for and it's not going away. But there are people who are very scared, like the mastering engineers who are like, oh well, I can just upload my file and have it mastered. AI in five seconds. Yes, it'll be loud, it will match the volume standards of what is considered deliverable to streaming platforms. But it hasn't got that human discernment yet. And that's the craft, that's ear training. And you guys are here to learn how to hone that craft. And AI is just going to become a more effective tool to the people who know how to embrace it, but will become a more effective threat for those who, who, who, who are are running away from it. I what an amazing answer and a great, great example as well. And I think coming back to just piggybacking off what you're saying, having we always talk about Finding jobs. You had that skill to be able to do that at granny's house. So you got that job, right? And we always talk about jobs where you need five years of experience. Again, if you know AI and you can master it, you can program it, you could get a six figure job right out the gate with that knowledge. So I feel like technology and that AI understanding it now you, you can skip a little bit of that. You know, I got to do five years at this company to put in my time. You're. You're a valuable asset right now. And I just love that example of, you know, it. It saved you in, In. In such a complicated endeavor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a lifesaver. Now, there are certain types of. Depending on the companies you're dealing with, that five year criteria could still exist for other reasons, but. And for degrees. You know, there are certain jobs where a bachelor's or the, the bare minimum, and it doesn't matter what the degree is in, you just have to have some kind of bachelor's. It's like a driver's license. It's like, well, why did I get my degree in this when I'm going to be doing with this? It's kind of ceremonial. I hate to say it, especially with the prices of what they. They got, but, boy, I have several friends who didn't finish with me at USC Recording Arts. They got a, they got a great gig at a studio in Los Angeles out of school before they graduated, and then they ended up trying to get a college gig years later. And since they didn't have a Bachelor's, it was 20 times for them to get in. It was unfortunate. I want to ask Tom. You've had a very lucrative career. You've seen a lot of change in this industry. I wouldn't say lucrative. I don't live in this house. When I say lucrative, I say experience is absolutely lucrative. You know, the. Being able to tell that, that Dre story is a great one at a bar or a great one at a Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. Biggest piece of advice you would give to your younger self with all that you've experienced. Well, actually to me, myself is don't doubt myself. There are a lot of times I'm like, I. I could never do that. When I remember graduating from college was like, I never want to be a producer. I'll. I'll be an engineer working for people, but I never think I will have enough skill set to be able to sit there and critically listen to anything and say that's good or bad. And Make a judgment call on that, which is what a producer is, their quality control. And turns out I ended up being great at that. And that's what people hire me for all the time now as to be producer, engineer. But in my business, music business class, the a little spoiler. If you ever come to Reno, I'm going to give away the punchline on my last class. The, the biggest advice, the takeaway advice to all of them is be nice. No one wants to work with an. You might get the job once, but you will not get it again. If you're a dick and you end up being in the same room with people for eight to 14 hours a day. If you're stuck in the same room with someone for that many hours a day, they better like you 100%, you know, and we're at that point where we've, we've had about, you know, 500 speakers. And if I could tell you how many times people who are successful come back with that's the number one. Like just having someone, your degree is your degree, your school is your school. Cool. But your personality will get you. It's easier to smile than to be the jerk. It's easier to go, teach me something. Ask the questions versus coming in going, I'm the hot shot. I know personal skills are extremely valuable. And what a great example. You're in a room there for 14 hours. You have a certain. There's really never an end time when you're producing. It's when it's done. Is when it's done done. So you could be, like you mentioned, playing your music in the early hours because that's when it ends. So I, I Tom, I just want to thank you again. You have shared such valuable skill sets that are needed to be successful. Stories are priceless. I love them. I want to wish you continued success, good health. I think you are onto something with what you guys are doing with revamping the studio. So kudos there. If you're ever interested in doing it in Santa Clarita or la, please call me. I have ideas for that as well. So magic. I appreciate you, everyone. Thank you for joining us on Breaking the Bin. Thank you, everybody. I, I only got to see a few of you, but I wanted to thank everyone for spending an hour of your time listening to my babble. It's not Babel. It's extremely good advice. So on that note, everyone have a fantastic evening. Thank you for joining Breaking the Biz, Tom. I'll be in touch. Thank you. Thank you very much, everyone. Cheers Bye.[Host] - As we conclude another enriching episode, we hope you've found inspiration in the stories shared today. Let's take a moment to honor Yes I Can's role in bringing Breaking the Biz to life. Yes I Can's commitment to empowering young people with disabilities through education, advocacy, and mentorship shines brightly, paving paths of opportunity and dialogue. This podcast celebrates the organization's dedication to nurturing talent and facilitating impactful discussions. Breaking the Biz is more than a podcast. It's a part of Yes I Can's broader mission to amplify voices, dismantle barriers, and craft a world that's more inclusive and accessible for everyone. Each episode is a chapter in our shared narrative of progress, education, and empowerment, driven by the spirit of Yes I Can. Thank you for spending your time with us on Breaking The Biz. Continue to challenge the status quo and share stories that resonate until our paths cross again. Let's keep transforming aspirations into achievements and infuse every endeavor with optimism. Here's to advancing the landscape of the entertainment industry one episode at a time. I'm your host, William Felber. See you next time.