Breaking Into Sound: Composing a Future Beyond Limits // Philip Mantione #5251

What does it take to turn sound into a language of possibility? In this episode of Breaking the Biz, we journey into the expansive world of experimental sound art, composition, and multimedia with Philip Mantione — a Los Angeles-based sound artist whose career challenges the boundaries of traditional music and embraces a world where creativity is unlimited.

With over two decades of experience, Mantione has composed for orchestra, chamber ensembles, computer, and multimedia environments, often using custom software to layer field recordings, samples, and computer-generated sound. His work spans fixed media, interactive performance, sound installations, and experimental video, embodying an artistic practice that’s both highly technical and emotionally resonant.

Mantione shares the unconventional path he took to establish himself in the entertainment and academic spheres, reflecting on how he built a career that bridges disciplines, embraces accessibility, and redefines how we think about listening. Along the way, he also explores how mentorship, innovation, and collaboration empower artists of all abilities to find their voice in spaces that often feel exclusive.

Listeners will learn:

How a career in sound art can evolve outside traditional music pathways

What it means to code your own tools as an artist

The challenges and triumphs of building inclusive spaces in multimedia art

Why embracing difference is essential to driving creative innovation

Whether you're a music lover, aspiring sound designer, or someone passionate about creating equitable futures in entertainment, this episode offers a thought-provoking dive into the sonic possibilities that surround us—and the people who make them real.

Join our conversation on social media:

facebook.com/breakingthebiz
instagram.com/breakingthebiz
instagram.com/yic_unity
https://www.linkedin.com/company/18149713

Interested in being a guest speaker? blieberman@yicunity.org

Transcript

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Hello, my name is Philip Mantione. I'm a experimental music composer, educator, writer. Happy to be here on Breaking the Biz Podcast. Stay tuned for today's episode of Breaking the Biz, an informative podcast where we dive into the world of entertainment by interviewing seasoned professionals who have made their mark in the industry. Gain invaluable insights as they share their personal journeys, offering advice on navigating the dynamic landscape of the entertainment industry. Whether you're an aspiring actor, musician, filmmaker, author, animator, or any creative soul, tune in for expert career guidance, insider tips and firsthand accounts on breaking into the entertainment industry. Get ready to unlock the secrets behind successful careers and fuel your own passion for the limelight. Please remember to like this video and to subscribe to our channels for more great conversations. Greetings from Breaking the Biz brought to you by Yes I Can Unity Through Music and Education. I'm William Felber, your navigator through the intriguing universe of the entertainment industry as revealed by the visionaries and creators who bring it to life. Stay tuned as we delve into diverse insights from the forefront of entertainment. Hearing from pioneers, creators and agents of change, prepare for a journey filled with tales of innovation, resilience and the undying quest for artistic brilliance. We've got an amazing guest speaker tonight. We have Philip Mantione, who is a professor of Audio production at the LA Film School. On top of that, Philip is a sound artist, a composer, sound designer, guitarist, computer musician, educator, writer, multimedia artist whose career has spanned over two decades. His work includes music for orchestra, various chamber assembles, computer fixed media, interactive performance, multimedia sound installation and experimental video. He writes custom software to meld field recordings, samples and computer generated sounds into unique sonic textures. Philip is the recipient of of two Meet the Composer grants in a recent commission from New Music usa. So Philip, I want to thank you first of all for making time for us tonight. I know as an educator and a music professional, you are always on the go and always creating. So I do want to give you those kudos for making time for us tonight. Happy to be here. All right, so let's jump into it. When you were a young boy, When I grow up, I'm going to be. What was that? It was either going to be a guitarist, a professional football player, or a professional golfer. I couldn't decide since I. I wasn't very good at the last two things. I ended up playing guitar. But you know, I don't know that anyone actually ends up doing the things they say they were going to do when they were eight. I mean, I'M sure some people do, but I come from a very musical family and so I kind of went in that direction. Okay, so one out of three is not so bad, right? Like, you know, I'd say those are pretty good odds. And you know, it's, it's always interesting. Sometimes our guest speakers are like, I wanted to do this and that's what I did. And sometimes there's people who navigate into different directions, but guitarist, boom, there you go. So through school, and I'm talking about junior high and high school, were you part of a band within the school? Well, I was always in the band. I played actually clarinet when I was in grade school and elementary and middle school and high school. I haven't played it in years, but I started playing guitar when I was 8 and I started working professionally when I was 14. Actually we, I was in a wedding band and you know, playing casuals and proms and weddings and things like that. So yeah, I started making money fairly early as a, as a musician. Not a lot of money, but to me it was a lot when, you know, we used to get paid. I remember, I think the first gig I played was I got paid $40 for a four hour gig, but at the time minimum wage was 250 an hour. So it seemed like really great money at the time. Anyway, anyway, it was a lot, a lot more fun than working in the supermarket, I'll tell you that. 100%, right? And at least there's some free food and an opportunity to, I mean, and that's great, right? Like even at a very early age, saw with being a musician that there are different avenues and different ways to make money with your talent. So that's fantastic. So you do that. What comes next for you? Well, I actually ended up going to, to college for a business degree and you know, it seems kind of unrelated but. Well, I was sort of pushed that in that direction by my parents who thought it would be a much more secure way to earn a L. And in my, in the back of my mind I thought, okay, I'll go, I'll get a business degree, I'll get a high paying job and then I'll have lots of money and time to pay for gear and make more music. I mean, in the back of my mind it was always about having the money to pursue what I really wanted to do. So which is, which is fantastic, right? Like to know that you, you know, you. It's always also interesting to me when parents sometimes go like, hey, you know, you've got talent, but why don't you try this. So following in, you know, that lead you do go to, you get business degree. Talk me through. I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, that's okay. So, yeah, so I got a bachelor's in business, State University in New York, which is pretty good school. I ended up going to, continuing on for the mba. And at some point, I guess I was about maybe three credits from the mba. And this is probably not a good thing to say to a bunch of students, but I dropped out because at some point I just realized that I didn't want to wear a suit and tie every day for. I didn't want to have that job, degree or no degree. So I kind of walked away and I ended up studying guitar for a number of years. I went to. I moved out to LA from. I was originally from Buffalo, New York, so I moved out to la. I went to school at the Musicians Institute to study guitar. And that's what really started me on, on my path really, because that's. I was studying something I really wanted to study. I really loved. Excuse me. So I did that. I went through the program and at some point I decided, well, I might as well go and get a master's on what I really wanted, which was. And composition. So I ended up going to school Cal State la, which is a state school. But it was a fantastic program. I thought the professors there were fantastic. Some of my best times, I remember from that. That experience. So I ended up getting a master's in, in music composition. And this was. It's funny because what I do for a living and what I teach and the way I make music has nothing to do with what I learned in that master's program. In terms of technology I was studying, it was. It was traditional composition, you know, notes and writing for instruments and, and having things performed in that way. But at some point I got. I got the bug to do more computer music. It was. It was sort of at the, you know, this. We're talking about early to mid-90s. So it was when digital music really started to take off in terms of being affordable and accessible to everyone. And so that's. I got drawn into the technology side of, of things as a. As another tool to create. Really, it goes on from there. But that was sort of my educational background anyway. The Music Institute. Is that the Music Institute in Hollywood? In Hollywood, yeah. Musicians Institute. So you study. That was like. That was like a year program for guitar only. It was about, you know, getting chops. Getting your. Your chops up on A guitar. And it was great for me. I was playing the best guitar of my life at that point. Great teachers, you know, it wasn't a traditional diploma degree was a certificate. But you know, that's when I went, I decided to go back for the masters at some point to get it was the best. That's one of the decisions I made because without a master's degree it's really hard to get into a teaching position which I found out later I had no real intention to teach. I really just wanted to write and to, you know, make a living in music somehow. But I didn't. Teaching was not in the back of my mind. So I hadn't really started teaching until 2010, like years and years later. And the master's degree had really helped me get that gig. Without it, it would have been a lot more difficult. Were your folks pleased that you ended up getting that master's degree? They didn't even know I didn't get the first one. I never really told them. Yeah, I never finished that degree, you know, but yeah, of course, you know, they were, they were proud of me. And I remember my dad saying, you know, after, after I had sort of established myself and, and was making a living in the business. He just told me how proud he was that, excuse me, that I followed my dreams basically. Yeah, and that's, and that's the important part. And I do want to say something about your self awareness. Sometimes people go through a certain path and they think they want to do something, they end up doing it and are miserable or it's not exactly what it, what they thought or imagined it was going to be day in and day out. So the fact of jumping ship, you know, I'm sure you, you wish you jumped ship a little bit early, but in hindsight everything did work out and no one wants to wear the suit and tie every single day. So you do music institute, you, you chop up on the guitar. Technology wise with music and digital music, was there a band or an artist that was doing anything with the electro music or you know, using the computer at that time that inspired you? You know, my tastes had changed over the years quite a bit. When I was in, when I was playing guitar in the 80s and even very younger was, you know, I was very much into rock and blues and, and actually I studied privately with a jazz teacher for a number of years. So those were my things. But when I went, when I ended up going to for a master's degree, I got very attracted to more contemporary styles and experimental music and There was a lot being done in that realm with, with computers and with electronic music that, that really attracted me and that. It was like a sort of, like an, a blank canvas. You know, there was no, there were no rules as far as what you had to do in terms of like pop music form, that kind of thing where you, you know, there are certain things that are expected in pop music and that's fine. It's just not one of the things that, that drew, that drew me to it. So like I said, the, it was right at the, the world was just opening up to that, that idea. And so there wasn't a lot of, there wasn't a lot of teaching involved. When I was going to masters for my master's degree. It was a very kind of, it was at the beginning stages of electronic music really. So I consider myself mainly self taught when it comes to technology and, and computer music in general, because I really am. I mean I really, I, I always say that, you know, my students, school doesn't really teach you what, what you need to know. It teaches you how to learn and how to keep growing after you get that degree. You know, the degree, the degree is only a piece of paper. Let's face it. You know, without the knowledge, it's not worth much. 100. And you know that cliche, it's always about the journey, right? And it's true, like the reality is when you, you, there's something to be said about being able to jump through all those hoops and the contacts that you meet along the way. But it's very interesting. Your perspective is very similar to the way I, I look at education as well. So you're at the forefront. You're kind of teaching yourself with technology and music. What comes next for you? Well, my first, well, here's the thing, and it was one of those questions that you had sent previously about was there a turning point? Was there something like that? I can't remember the exact phrasing of it, but you know, when I was in my master's program, I had a job. It was, it was working for a machine shop. I was like the office manager for this machine shop. It was terrible, grungy, not a fun job, miserable, miserable boss, not a nice person to work for. And I, I quit the job like two or three times. And he kept hiring me back because no one else could work with this guy. And finally I just, I said, you know, that's it. I needed money to continue my education and to just survive. But I sort of made the choice. I Wasn't going to take any job that wasn't somehow related to music. And so it was a bit of a mindset change and a leap of faith and really never looked back from that point. I ended up getting my first job. It was a music proofreader based on a recommend recommendation of my professor. And that's one of the things that education does give you connections. I would have never got my foot in the door without that call, you know, so I forgot what the original question was, but I'll help you. The turning point, right, that, like, and that is. I love how you have that epiphany of like, hey, this is something that I'm not happy doing. I don't. It has no correlation to the education that I'm paying for. There's nothing wrong with doing whatever job you have to do to pay your way through school, to pay your way, you know, to pursue your passion, but to have the mindset of, hey, I'm only going to take a job that aligns with what I want to really do in the end, I think is fantastic. So you get into. I was just gonna say there are plenty of shitty jobs. You might as well have one that relates to your field, right? And believe me, every field has its share of shitty jobs. Somewhere you got to start, you got to build up and pay your dues, right? No one walks in and is the boss right away. So. So that job, though, was connected to a professor opening the door, which is a very. And I'm glad you, you highlighted that, is a very big piece. Being able to be stamped by someone who goes, hey, this person is solid. Many times jobs are not posted. Many times just having a recommendation from someone that the hire respects opens a door. So in that case, it opened a door for you. That's right. And the other thing you have to realize as, as a professor now, you know, I'm paying it for, I'm paying it forward. You know, I'm always giving recommendations, but I don't. I don't just hand them out. I only hand them out. You know, to be quite honest, if you've. If you've gotten anything less than an A in one of my classes, you'll never get a letter from me. Because if you can't prove yourself at that level, why would I assume that you're going to be good once you get a job? And if you're not good at that job, why would I attach my name to your. You know, it comes down to reputation, which is something that I've been building for 30 years. And I wouldn't risk that just to do a favor for someone that hasn't shown the true commitment. You know, 100. I say that all the time. I mean, comes back to those students who are, don't turn in work on time. Right. If you're not going to be able to turn in work on time and meet deadlines, are you going to be able to meet the deadlines when you get hired and 100%, you know, reputation and working that hard. 30, you know, 30 years in education. Yeah, like it matters. So I love the high standards, but at the same time, no doubt when indeed you have a student who works hard or someone who goes above and beyond, that gets noticed. Oh sure. And those are the type of people that we want to attach our names to. And those are the type of people that we know are going to be successful out there. That's right. So after that job, what comes next? Because you've got a career of doing a little bit of everything. Oh, man. Yeah. Lived a lot of, A lot of lifetimes. Each one is great. But after, you know, I worked for Sony for a while, was working. I worked on several sort of major films, let's see, got together Batman and Robin, Austin Powers. I worked on some pretty big productions on the Sony lot as a proofreader and music copyist. And maybe I should probably. I don't know how many people here are in that. The music and music end of things or versus visual. I know you said you had people in visual arts as well. Yes, a little bit of everything. Okay, so just to clarify what, what it is, what that music preparation industry is, which is. I worked in there for probably 10, 15 years. So the way it works, like when you, when a composer writes for film, it all starts with a score, a written score of foreign orchestra. I'm talking about major productions now. And that score is going to have every part on the, on the. That's in the music. It's going to have every part on one sheet of paper so that the conductor can conduct from that score and he knows what's going on at any given point in time. That's. That's what a score is. A copyist will extract individual parts from that score for each player. So the violin part will have a play, you know, a part the flute player and so on. They'll all have their own part. It's not going to have every part that's being played. They only see their own part, part. So that's a skill, that's a craft to to extract those parts from a score and make individual parts from them. From there, things get proofread to make sure no one's made any mistakes from the orchestrator to the copyist, to the, to the music actually gets on the stand. And so I did that for a number of years that. Well, I did it for a little while in la and then my wife, who's a visual artist, Elise de Panan, she's my wife and partner, she wanted to move to New York because New York City is like the happening place for the arts, really, especially visual arts. So we just decided, we shook hands on it, said, all right, let's move to New York. And we quit our jobs and we moved to New York with one little 14 foot truck and everything we owned in it and no jobs and no place to live. It was fantastic. It was great. I mean, it was like we never had felt that, that free ever. And we probably never will again because the last time we moved I had two 24 foot U haul trucks. So I've gone from one 14 footer to two 24 footers. You know, I don't know if that's a sign of success or hoarding one or the other. Let's just talk about the, the growth mindset that both of you have. Yeah, hey, what a wonderful partnership to just go, okay, you know, like I'm establishing and working here, but this is, this will help your career. I can find work obviously in New York as well. Let's go. People stay in jobs and stay in places that they're just really not happy. It always amazes me to see, you know, people travel to pursue dreams, let alone two people, and not have a. Not have like something in the works as far as a job, not even a place to stay. So talk me through you. How do you each find the job and the place to stay? Well, I had one friend in New York, a couple friends, but one close friend that kind of helped us figure out where, you know, kind of get our grounding and figure out what's going on. But I had one reference from a guy that I worked for in LA for some of those films I talked about. He gave me a really strong reference for a music copyist in New York. And that's how I got my foot in the door in New York. And from there, you know, you just have to prove whatever job you have, you have to do the best possible work that you can. This, you know, that type of work that I was doing is freelance. So that means, you know, it's not A nine to five thing. You work when there's a project and you don't when there isn't and you get the call and you have to say yes. Especially in the beginning, if you don't say yes, that you don't get a second call many times. So it's all about being available, being ready, being prepared, being good at what you do. You know, there was, I, I use this, I talked to my students about this. Are you familiar with Neil Gaiman? He's the author. Writer. No, no. Anyway, he's, I can't remember one of his titles right now, but he, he gave this address at a graduation ceremony. That's always stuck with me regarding work because a lot of the work you do in this business is, is going to be freelance, not going to be, you know, nine to five type stuff. And he said there's three things you have to do or there are three things that are important in for freelance work. And if you can get two out of three, you're always going to have work. One of them is being on time, meeting deadlines, all that stuff you mentioned earlier, this, that's like the simple one. Another one is being really good at what you do, just being a pro and you know, always growing and staying on top of the technology and, and the third one is being easy to work with. And it really makes sense because it's, it's proven true for me that two out of three, I mean, of course if you get three out of three, you'll be saying no a lot because people will be calling you. But even two out of three, you can, you can maintain a living, you can get, get, you can get work. You know, I just throw that out there because man, the deadline thing is so important in, in, in entertainment I've seen, I've witnessed people getting fired because they just didn't make the deadline or they didn't do what they needed to do. And it's not a pretty sight and that, and to me that's the easiest part of the job. You know, if the deadline is Friday, my deadline is Wednesday because I have to assume something's going to go wrong. And if I'm wrong and everything goes right, beautiful. But if something does go wrong, I got that buffer. I'm so glad you said that because the executive functioning skills I think you get from college most definitely help with deadlines. And I mentioned earlier being able to jump through those hoops. It's almost like a test for college to get that paper you gotta meet all those deadlines. But Something else that said that really resonates and it's been echoed by 300 plus guest speakers is a being on time. But the other one is being friendly and being easy to work with. Right. There's so many people who come out with those degrees who think like they're entitled and things should be handed to them. But the honest truth is if you're on time and you're doing good work and you're easy to work with, those are the people that are going to get those phone calls again. That's right. One deadline, you miss one deadline, you're never going to get that letter of wreck. You're never going to have someone stamp your name. So deadlines is, is very important. But pre planning, just like you mentioned, hey, if it's a Friday deadline, let's go with Wednesday. And I guarantee you if you have a deadline on Friday and you turn it in on Wednesday and go, hey, I'm just looking for feedback. Just want you to see the work I've done. Is there anything that needs to be changed or polished, let me know. Yeah, a boss is going to go, all right, game on. Let's get you on the next project. The other thing that you said is very, very true. Obviously entertainment sector is very much a gig economy. 90% of the jobs now they're expecting are going to be gig economy style work, not just for entertainment. As technology comes around, more and more jobs and opportun opportunities are opening up. But I loved how you mentioned that like you have to be ready, you have to say yes to certain projects. I love how you mentioned that, especially in the beginning because if you decline one, it's not like someone's go, oh, you know, they declined the first one, let's go reach out to them again. Whoever does that job is probably going to get the call for the next gig or the next opportunity. Right. I will say, I will add this. When you're first starting out and you're looking for that first gig, a lot of people will do it either for free or for very little money. And that's okay for the first gig. But the second time you got to charge that, that same client. Don't, don't do it again. You know, you did the first one to say, okay, this is what I can do and this is what, you know, this is how good I am now, you know, time to pay because the people will exploit you. You know, it's, it's a is. The entertainment in business is no different than any other business in terms of exploitation and that possibility. So you always got to be careful with that. Yeah. Okay, so after that you're in New York, you're, you're, you know, doing that job. What comes next for you? Well, I should say that the whole time that, you know, I'm, I'm finding these gigs to make money, I'm, I'm doing creative work and I've had electronic pieces played all over the world, various festivals. My wife and I have collaborated on a number of experimental video projects and installation projects which have been in museums and galleries and things like that. So that was really, I mean, the, the way to make money and the way that I found creative outlets are sort of completely different. The way I was making money, of course, was very good for my technical skills and for my musical skills because it was always about looking at music all day long and, and listening to it and, and reading it and getting very good with, with traditional harmony anyway. But the electronic stuff is not so much about notes, it's more about timbres and, and texture and sort of different ways to think about sound. So I was constantly doing that. And being in New York, we did, you know, my wife and I actually founded while we were there, a non profit organization called many, which is acronym for Musicians and Artists in New York. We put on about five festivals with all different sorts of artists, dancers and video artists and musicians. And it was, it was great fun. It was a great place to be to do those things because there's so many venues and there's such big audiences. You know, it didn't matter what you did in New York, you'd get, you know, dozens of people to show up because there's just so many people interested and it was fun. So I, I always was doing that. At the same time I was working as a, as a copyist and most of my work there was a Broadway theater and I worked on, I don't know, dozens and dozens of shows in that way. One of my best. That was sound design. No, it was music copying. Okay. Actually, yeah, in the copying end because it's mostly that type of thing on Broadway. One of the, one of the most, one of the coolest things that experiences I had. There was a show that. You familiar with Stephen Sondheim? Yes. Okay. So he wrote a new musical and they were doing a preview of it in Chicago. So they paid me and another person to go out to Chicago and I was in a room with Stephen Sondheim banging out music on a little stand up piano. Jonathan Tunick, who was his orchestrator for Several years orchestrating as he was writing. And then it was coming to me to do the copying. And it was like, you know, like this trio of people, incredible people. So that was a fascinating thing to be involved with, but. But, you know, to be quite honest, musical theater was not my creative. It's not what I really wanted to do. I was always on the weirder end of the weird side of the spectrum. Always wanted to do this crazy stuff. So, you know, you gotta follow what you wanna do. And in terms of creative work that comes before everything else in my life, in terms of what I do musically, everything else is about making the buck. And, you know, if you're good at what you do, that's not a problem. You always have. You always have people calling you. It's a different, changing world now. We'll talk about that too, I'm sure, but it's a little different than it was back in the 90s. I do love how you mentioned getting those creative juices out and doing what you want to do at the same time being very good at something else that. That pays the bills, but having that balance of, you know, doing what you need to do to pay the bills. But at the same time, you. You were exposed to experimental music and tech, and that really, you know, was the. The driving force for you. And then being able, obviously, to do art installations and create festivals and work with your wife. That's amazing. So after you're doing both, you're doing a little musical theater. What comes next for you in your career? So this is, I guess around 9 11, I was actually in New York City during. When 911 happened. I was on the A train when it happened and people were, you know, on their. I can't remember. People were listening, listening to the radio or something on the. On the subway. And they said, we're at war. And I didn't really, you know, take it very seriously. But then when I got to. When I got to the office, there it was, you know, it was pretty brutal. Anyway, that was. I don't know why I bring that up, only that around that time we decided to move out of the city. It was getting a little bit too much too. I don't know anyone that's ever lived in a big city. It's a drain on your psyche in a lot of ways. It's exciting because there's so much going on in terms of art, but it's also a drain. Especially in New York. It's really tough going on the subway every day and getting to work that way. So I ended up going. We bought a house up, up around Sullivan County. I was still working, I was doing things at home and I was also commuting sometimes from there. But we bought that house and we stayed up there for a couple years and then we ended up selling, making some money from the house and then we decided we were just going to travel. So this is back in probably 2006. Spent about four or five years just traveling and doing artist residencies. I lived in Beijing, I lived in Barcelona, Berlin, strangely, all these cities and started with B. I don't know why, but we lived in a bunch of places, did, did some residencies, created a lot of really good work, I think, and ended up in the end coming back to LA and sort of stayed in California until. Until now. I was in LA for a while and then moved up here, Northern California, where I am now. And when did you. When did you decide to be part of the LA Film School? Oh, okay. So that came when I stopped doing the music copying thing. When I came back to it, there wasn't a lot, you know, the people had moved on. You know, I had been out of it too long to continue to get work. Especially I came back into new into LA and those contacts, a lot of them either gone or retired or there wasn't as much work. So, you know, I threw a resume out there to teach. I really didn't. I had no teaching experience other than I did some substitute teaching when I was young, but I never taught, taught higher education. And I found that people liked my experience and they hired me and I was. I started actually working for the Art Institute in California and did that for six, seven years. And then they sort of went under and so I ended up getting a job at Mount San Antonio College, part time adjunct. I also teach at the Los Angeles College of Music as an adjunct and I'm full time at Los Angeles Film School. So I'm able to kind of do all three schools because they're all online. So I'm doing everything at this. Well, it didn't start that way, but now it is. So it kind of freed me up to live wherever I want to live and also, you know, still have those gigs. So let's talk about the change in technology and the changing landscape because obviously being able to even have a meeting like this Zoom Covid changed really the way we do a lot of things and I've talked about to our students that things aren't always going to go back to the way they were. Sometimes it takes a big Change to see that there's different ways of doing things. Things. So what has been your take on. On how, how music has changed? Obviously you were at kind of that pioneer stage of sonic sounds and, and so forth, but so many musicians now just create off of the computer. Oh, sure, yeah. And you know, you bring up Zoom Vocaloid and Hatsune M Vocaloid. Okay, I'm not, not sure who that is. Don't worry about it. Keep going. Anyway. Yeah, the COVID really, really was. I hate to say it, but it was really a good thing for me in terms of teaching because it allowed me to teach more than one place, number one. And it took away that miserable commute I had on the 10 Freeway in LA. It was a not a fun commute. So that opened me up to teach more than one place and also to teach at home from my own studio. And I think it really, it changed the nature of education a lot more than people realize because there's a lot of students, especially at the community college level, that they don't have time to go to a class two days a week for two hours a day in the middle of the day. It's really, you know, people do have to earn a living somehow, and that's not always a good, good, you know, a good situation. So I think it's helped education in that way. As far as Zoom goes in terms of other technology, of course, the biggest baddest thing out there, and I say bad in a good way sort of is AI. Now that's happening in all the arts, you know, visual arts as well, of course. And it's, it's a sort of an unknown. No one really knows what, where it's going to lead or what's going on. But I do know that, you know, things that in audio production, for instance, there's a lot of AI assisted software now. Plugins that are, you know, they're using AI to analyze, analyze sound and figure out settings and speed up workflows, which is a big thing. There's music generators now that will actually write music based on text prompts. And it's actually getting, getting scarily good. It's gonna, it's gonna change the nature. You know, there's a whole sort of career path or it used to be for composers called production music, where you, you write things for libraries and, and then visual artists go on those libraries to find music for their, their project and they pay a royalty or they pay a fee and the composer would get money from that. But now you don't even have to be a composer or a musician anymore to get a reasonably good piece of music that's AI generated. It's not at all the same as a human being at this stage and usually pretty banal, but it's, you know, for, for, you know, if you have something like a YouTube channel and you want some opening music for your YouTube channel, you know, it's as good as anything else. And to be honest, a lot of production music composers that were writing music weren't writing very good music to begin with anyway. A lot of them. So it's changing the nature of the whole industry in ways that we've yet to even discover. You know, I have a website, I even need to talk about the, the writing part of, of my life yet. But I started a website with a colleague called wave informer.com it's an industry type blog and we use a lot of AI generated images for it for, you know, featured images for an article for review or things like that. Will, because we don't have, we don't have the resources to pay a graphic artist, you know, dedicated graphic artist for that job. But I can go and use, you know, what is it, Adobe Firefly and just punch in, you know, some text descriptions and, and just keep doing it until I get something that's reasonably good. And so people are doing the same thing with music. You know, visual artists that can't write music or that don't know what they're doing musically can find something that way. So where does that lead? You know, us as people that, that are in the industry. The answer is I don't know. But I do. But I did. But I do know, I do know that it's not going to eliminate the majority of human beings that are involved in the entertainment business because there's something about the human mind that they're a long ways from replicating. In terms of AI, one of the things it is interesting. I don't want to cut you off, keep going. Just one of the basic things that I can think of is the process, for instance, of writing music. In that process you'll often come across or make a mistake. Something will happen just serendipitously and as a human being you can say, wait a minute, that's a mistake, but I like it and I'm going to use it. Whereas a computer will say it's a mistake and discard it. Because the computer's mind is all based on what's already happening, happened. It's all based on historical data. It's not based on what might happen in general. And even if it is trying to project what might happen, it still takes a human being to decide whether it's good or not. No, I. AI is. Is crazy. You know, I was. As you were talking, I'm thinking, like, with AI you could shoot AI all of the notes and the composition, right? And I'm sure you could say, now separate each part to the violinist, the drummer, the bass, the guitar. And AI can do that? I do. What I have found with AI Is it does take a human being to go in there and fix the mistakes. There's always little tweaks. I could not agree with you more on music. I mean, some of the music we listen to and we love is off of a mistake or a tone that, you know, they weren't expecting. So mistakes are a beautiful thing, especially with composing music. But I hear exactly what you're saying. The AI only knows what it has before to go off of with grading. I grade a lot of English essays, and. And there's always a bias on, you know, who's reading what, who's grading what. And now they're moving to AI grading as far as essays go. But there's many times where a grade will come out, and then the humans still have to go in there and go, well, does it really deserve the score of a four, or should it be a three? And, you know, you go back and forth, and then you have to change it. So I. I am agreeing with you. I feel like humans will still find their place, but people are going to save money. However they can save money if that means using AI for a bunch of stuff. But then just having, you know, one Philip there at the end to make sure everything is the way it needs to be. Well, this could. This could definitely be a career path, just fixing AI and making it better. Better. You know, it's, of course, very useful for filmmakers because they can, like, let's say they have a scene and they want to. Okay, I want. How would this sound with, like, this electronic music generate, you know, 30 seconds of, you know, electronic music? And it'll do it. And they can slap it on the video and see if it works. Works. And they say, okay, now. Now do something, you know, bluegrass, and it'll do it. And they can have 30 seconds of bluegrass, and they could quickly A and B, all these different genres and find the right one, and then say, okay, I'm gonna now hire a composer and write in this style for a particular scene because it works. So, you know, it's changing workflows. I Think for the better. But it is, you know, if I was, if I was in my 20s, I would definitely be investigating the best programs that deal with AI and how to where, where, how I can find my place in that world. I think it's, there's definitely something to be said for it and I'm not sure where it's gonna, no one knows where it's gonna end up. Yeah, no, I, I, I agree. It's one of those things where almost like the Back to the future, if you could be, be ahead of it, other than investing in Bitcoin and certain things. But yes, I'm, I'm in total agreeance with you. I still think it takes the orchestrator or the director, so to speak, to direct the AI in the direction that you need and what you want. Let's talk about your writing career. Sure. So a colleague of mine who I was teaching with actually introduced me to the guy that runs the Pro Audio files, which is, was pretty, pretty big blog for audio professionals, production people, pretty well read. And so he asked me if I wanted to write for them. And I had never written, I had never had anything published in text, as far as text goes. And I said, I said of course. Because I, I don't like to say no. It's a big problem of mine. I just say yes and then I figure it out later. I think that's, you know, it's one of those things where fake it till you make it. I think it's, I think is the expression and it's, it's really a good thing to throw yourself into unfamiliar situations. I think it's one of the best ways to grow as an artist, as a person, if you're comfortable, if you're always like, you know, content, well, you're not really growing. I mean, it's fine if that's all you want in life, but for me, I have to always, always push myself. I feel that's, that's where I get the buzz from, from learning from growing new, learning new things all the time. And so this was a chance to write for this blog that write all these technical articles. And there's nothing better to teach yourself and to become better at something yourself than either writing about it or teaching it it. And those two things I've always found to be true. So if you have to teach something, you have to really know what you're talking about. And if you're going to write something, well, your name is going on that thing. It's going to be all over the world online you want to make sure that you don't make a fool out of yourself. So you're going to, you're going to do your research and do your due diligence. And so that's. I started writing. I think I wrote 150, 200 articles for the Pro audio files, reviews, interviews with people, all kinds of different things. They stopped publishing new materials a few years ago. They, they've gone in the direction of AI, so they've changed their whole sort of business strategy. But that same guy that recommended me to begin with, we said, well, we really like doing this, we really like this, this writing aspect. Let's just start our own thing. So that's where I started this website called wave informer.com and in fact, I'll put the link here in case anyone wants to take a look. 100%. Well, you're putting that, that link there. You have a mantra that you say that keeps you focused, positive, something that you find yourself saying daily. No, I wouldn't say there's anything that I find myself saying daily would probably be a good thing because there are times, there are days you just don't feel like doing stuff. But I, I think the, if, if I did have a mantra, it would be based on a teacher of mine, Joe Diorio, who's a guitar, one of the greatest jazz players that probably no one's ever heard of, but jazz players know him. And he told me the biggest thing, the biggest element for success is perseverance, just to never give up. I think that's bottom line. Because people that give up, well, that's the end of that, right? But if you keep pushing irregardless of, of, you know, what the, what the problems are, what the challenges are, you just keep moving forward, eventually you're going to get there. You know, you just have to have confidence and a little bit of courage to say, yeah, this is a bad day, tomorrow's going to be better, and I'm going to keep going. Love that last question I have on my end. And then last few minutes I'm going to open it up for, for questions. Biggest piece of advice you would give your younger self, Forget about business school. Just go straight for music, because that's really what you want to do. And I think you have to recognize and really visualize what your life is going to be like when you, you know, as you, as you enter a career path, don't be afraid to talk to people, to ask questions of people that are already doing what you think you might want to do. You'll find that people, as, you know, the reason I'm here, because I love talking about myself and to be quite honest, it's fun. And, and also I like sharing, you know, my experiences. I think it's, it's a way to pay things forward. So, yeah, that's, that's what I would say. Just who knows which student here is going to avoid business school just because you dropped that knowledge? No, but it's true. A, it's very, very insightful. You know, again, I, I, I talk about your growth mindset, like moving to New York, not having a job, not having a place to stay, you know, taking on new projects that you haven't done before, giving yourself an opportunity to grow. All of that is so true. You know, I'm a one of those type of people. There's no such thing as failure as long as you're learning from the lesson. And sometimes you have to fail to, you know, push you in a different direction, so. Absolutely. And, you know, if you haven't failed, you're just not trying hard enough. Yeah. Hello, Mr. Manteon. Hi. Good to see you. Good to see you as well. Thank you so much for being a guest and sharing your insights in the industry. You, I, you talk, you talked a lot about your career and the places you've traveled to. And I, I just want to, like, know how does it feel to have. Oh, sorry. How does it feel to have a work life balance and time and travel freedom? Okay. It feels great. You know, work, work life balance, I think is a, it's a funny, it's a funny thing because my life is my work in a lot of ways. So it's not really balancing anything. It's just like, like when, you know, this part of the day I'm doing this, it's still what I want to do. This part of the day I'm doing something else. It's also what I want to do, so I don't feel like I really have to balance. I think it's a little more difficult for people with kids. I never had kids. It's not, it wasn't in something that my wife and I wanted to do, so. But it is different. That changes the equation totally. And I'm not even going to pretend to understand that or equate what I do to what people with kids, because it's a totally different thing. But work life balance is very easy for me because I'm always doing what I want to do, so I consider it all life, really. Any advice for someone like me who Desires. Work. Life. Balance and time and travel. Freedom. Well, time management, you know, time management, it's. It comes down to writing yourself out of schedule. I did that when I was in grad school and I was really busy working and I wrote down hour by hour every day what I was going to do and what I needed to do for that day. You got to be organized because there is, it's one of the things that you can't buy more of. You can't buy more time. You know, there's a. There's a finite amount. So it's about, it's about management. Manage time management. Perfect to do. Lists are a beautiful thing. Yeah. Gotta have them. Yeah. Thank you so much. Awesome. Aiden, go ahead and ask your question. Okay. I was thinking about like a question relating to what gets you energized to write a song or even do any writing. Because I feel like as someone who is a creative type, it's been, it's. Sometimes it's hard to get into the groove of, of that kind of thing because lately it's been like that for me. And I just wanted to ask how you do it. Good question. I think the, the hardest part is starting. Once you start, once you're, you know, you're in your studio or whatever, however you write or wherever you write, if you're in the other room, you know, watching TV or even just staring at the wall, it's going to be really hard to start. So put yourself in that situation. Organize your, your space. It's important for me anyway not to have a cluttered space. I like to have everything sort of ready to go and, you know, at my fingertips. And then give yourself 10 minutes and say, okay, I'm going to write. I'm going to come up with some ideas for 10 minutes and actually, you know, use your phone, set a timer, 10 minutes. And what you're going to find is that, well, once you start doing it, oh, this is an exciting idea. All of a sudden you're inspired. I need another 10 minutes. And you just. And then you throw away the phone because you're so far into it, you know, you lose track of time. So, you know, I'm not going to say there's one way to do that. Everyone has their own method. Procrastination is the biggest enemy of, of creation, creative work. So the way to get over it, I think, is just to make the mindset that I'm going to start set itself some, you know, set yourself a specific time of the day that you're. That's that's yours. Close the door, turn off your phone and don't let anything distract you and take it from there. I think, you know, if you're a creative person, it'll come out. It'll come out. I do experiment with all kinds of software because. Because I'm. Because I have this blog and I end up getting. One of the benefits having having a blog and reviewing things, you get free stuff. So I'm always getting sent free software to experiment and try and write about. About. I use some of it and. But I do a lot of my own programming, so that's where most of my work comes from. As far as getting and writing for team TV and film, that's not something that, that I've done in that arena. I write for experimental film, which is a whole different ball game. But the way to do that is to get educated, to learn the basics of the workflow in those particular mediums, which is very specific and it requires very specific skill set. And then once you have that, it's all about proving yourself along the way and getting some recommendations and maybe going to. Finding a mentor that, that's a composer for those mediums and working with them or doing internships. You just attack it from all different directions. There's no one path. One thing that you can do immediately though, is to. To rescore existing video, professional video films, scenes that you can just download from YouTube and I don't know what software you're using, but you can put that in a daw and, and try to score, try to score some things and, and develop a portfolio of your work in that way. You know that, that that visual material is already out there, so you don't have to. To make a connection to do that. But it's good that you can build a portfolio that way. Perfect. Great question, Noah. Philip, I want to thank you once again for making time for us tonight. Your advice is extremely important. You can see the resilience that was mentioned, the perseverance. You need that to be successful people, and Philip has that. You need to have the growth mindset. You need to be willing to take risks. You're going into a gig economy where until you have proven your worth, you need to say yes to projects, collaborate with one another, take on things that maybe are outside of your comfort zone to learn. It might be something that you absolutely enjoy and want to pursue. Again, you're. Philip is a, is a professor, so there is a big importance to not taking shortcuts, getting trained, whatever it is you want to specialize in. Take that time and go through the education. Not only are you going to be better at your craft, you are going to make connections. You're going to have other professors out there that will will stamp your skill set and your ability, your hustle, your drive and your passion. So again, Philip, I just want to wish you continued success, good health, and we look forward to following your successful career further. Hey, pleasure meeting you all. I appreciate it for the invitation. Bret. Thank you. Have a great night everyone.[Host] - As we conclude another enriching episode, we hope you've found inspiration in the stories shared today. Let's take a moment to honor Yes I Can's role in bringing Breaking the Biz to life. Yes I Can's commitment to empowering young people with disabilities through education, advocacy and mentorship shines brightly, paving paths of opportunity and dialogue. This podcast celebrates the organization's dedication to nurturing talent and facilitating impactful discussions. Breaking the Biz is more than a podcast. It's a part of Yes I Can's broader mission to amplify voices, dismantle barriers, and craft a world that's more inclusive and accessible for everyone. Each episode is a chapter in our shared narrative of progress, education, and empowerment, driven by the spirit of Yes I Can. Thank you for spending your time with us on Breaking the Biz. Continue to challenge the stack status quo and share stories that resonate until our paths cross again. Let's keep transforming aspirations into achievements and infuse every endeavor with optimism. Here's to advancing the landscape of the entertainment industry one episode at a time. I'm your host, William Felber. See you next time.