Breaking into Accessibility: Fan Services in Entertainment // Jon Bell #9243

In this episode, we explore the role of accessibility in entertainment with the Live Nation Director of Fan Services & Accessibility for Venues. Discover how scalable, fan-centered programs and seamless experiences are designed for fans of all backgrounds, including those with disabilities. From conducting accessibility audits to collaborating across teams, this conversation reveals the challenges and triumphs of creating inclusive spaces in a high-traffic, multi-location organization. Tune in for an inspiring look at how accessibility is reshaping the fan journey in entertainment.

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Transcript

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Hi, I'm Jon Bell, Director of Fan Services and Accessibility at Live Nation on Breaking the Biz Podcast[Music] - Stay tuned for today's episode of Breaking the Biz, an informative podcast where we dive into the world of entertainment by interviewing seasoned professionals who have made their mark in the industry. Gain invaluable insights as they share their personal journeys offering advice on navigating the dynamic landscape of the entertainment industry. Whether you're an aspiring actor, musician, filmmaker, author, animator or any creative soul, tune in for expert career guidance, insider tips and firsthand accounts on breaking into the entertainment industry. Get ready to unlock the secrets behind successful careers and fuel your own passion for the limelight. Please remember to like this video and to subscribe to our channels for for more great conversations. Greetings from Breaking the Biz brought to you by Yes I Can Unity Through Music and Education. I'm William Felber, your navigator through the intriguing universe of the entertainment industry as revealed by the visionaries and creators who bring it to life. Stay tuned as we delve into diverse insights from the forefront of entertainment. Hearing from pioneers, creators and agents of change. Prepare for a journey filled with tales of innovation, resilience and the undying quest for artistic brilliance. Welcome everyone to Breaking the Biz Podcast. We have got a great guest with us. We have Jon Bell, who is Live Nation's Director of fan services and accessibility. At their venues. Jon helps with driving the design and Implant... Implement.(I can't even say that word right now.) Implementation. There it is. There it is....of new fans facing programs and operational incentives for high traffic large scale organizations. Ensuring seamless and inclusive experiences for all fans including those with disabilities and diverse backgrounds. Establishing programs aimed at removing service friction points across the fan journey by creating a cohesive scalable and compliant service experience. The role requires a deep understanding of fan and guest service experiences. Large scale process, program creation and hospitality and event management space. Jon has the ability to collaborate with cross functional teams to implement scalable and standardized solutions in a decentralized multi location organization. That is a mouthful but I am so glad to have you Jon. Yeah, that's quite the intro. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Well, I think obviously the work you do is extremely important. I want to kind of ask you just right off the bat, when did you fall in love with music? Great question. That's a very similar question that we all ask each other at work all the time. I think it was my two things two part answer. First part is my first CD I ever got was a Glenn Miller CD from My great grandmother and "In The Mood" was the first song that I ever heard that really evoked emotion into where I connected it to being with my grandmother. And that goes back to me being seven years old or so. And still when I hear that song, it reminds me. It takes me back to that much simpler time. But then my first live music experience was seeing James Taylor with my dad. And I was 11 or 12, and the concept of live music was new to me. I didn't realize that was something that people went and did. And growing up, listening to James Taylor, you know, seeing it live and realizing that together everybody could gather and do something like that was kind of where I got the bug. And fel in love with. With music and live music in general. I love it. And obviously, the bug is amazing once it bites us. And then, you know, coming full circle, being able to work in this industry with Live Nation a monster in promotion, it does come full circle, but I want to. I want to take steps back. I want to hear your process before you got to Live Nation. So let's talk about education. What was your path as far as education goes? Went to college right after high school. Took a little bit longer to finish than the traditional route as life, you know, happens and got in the way. But that didn't mean that I stopped, you know, caring about ongoing learning and all of that stuff. But, yeah, attended Portland State University and studied business. And that really kind of gave me a. A firm foundation of just kind of the business world, how it works, how things operated, because I knew I wanted to go into some type of business. I did know that hospice brutality was kind of at, like, the core of what I wanted to do. What that looked like, I didn't really know. So, yeah, that kind of my education led me to an internship doing the Disney College program way back in the early 2000s, because I knew that that would help me kind of develop the skills that I needed to kind of navigate that education that I just got in the real world. So that was kind of my path as far as school is concerned. Did you attend the Disney College program? Oh, yeah, sure did. And I did the Disney College program right after school and actually turned into a career there for nearly a decade. And so I went and did the program, got an internship, and through the connections and networking that I made and through the people I met and through the doors I knocked down, I was able to get what they at the time referred to a professional internship. At the end of that program, which was a management internship. So I went into A leadership training program that Disney put on that was very competitive and it really gave me like the skills that I needed to be a successful leader. And met with, you know, tons of folks in the business. And you know, as I mentioned, like, I knew I wanted to do like business and I knew I really enjoyed, you know, hospitality. As I meant, as I just mentioned, one of the things that I also really enjoy is just taking care of people. And to me as a leader, that's what ultimately what you're doing is you're taking care of people for that are kind of supporting the bigger cause. And so at the conclusion of that professional internship that led to a career at Disney that lasted, like I said, nearly a decade in a variety of types of roles. But that kind of set the stage for my career, if you will. That was not linear. There is no rhyme or reason to it. But it all makes sense at the end. You know, it's funny because we think about like concerts and you have thousands of people and there are, are those people that have a hard time talk about accessibility, right? Disney's got a lot of eyes on them as far as accessibility and those who need certain passes and accommodations and they've kind of made it a little more difficult because obviously they're people who are taking advantage of the system and those who really do need those accommodations. So you gain that leadership through the Disney program. You do several different roles, all still in the hospitality and making sure guests are enjoying themselves. Then what, what comes next? That's a great question. I actually went into a role within retail of all places with a little company called Apple. And this was down in central Florida and in the central Florida market, the Apple stores are huge because there's a lot of tourism. And Apple, Apple's of course a company that a lot of folks admire and I admired at the time just because of their, their products that they make, but also like how they, you know, weave into folks lives to just make their lives better. And I really wanted to learn how, you know, I could take what I learned at Disney, those, those principles of hospitality, taking care of each other towards a common goal or purpose. And I knew that Apple could help me continue to, to kind of refine that with the time I'm going to date myself. This was like the iPhone4 when I was there so a while back. And iPhones are much different these days. But going into the Apple experience, I was able to continue to kind of like, you know, deal with the ambiguity of an Apple store and pretending of not knowing that a New phone's going to launch soon. And the pivots that we had to make constantly with product changes and training, all while holding to the same standard that I was used to at Disney that Apple has. Apple has extremely high standards of not only their products but also their services, their stores, how they appear, how we interacted with customers on a daily basis was really important to Apple. And so I became somebody at the stores that trained folks on how to do that. So they came in, I would take them through training outside of the store making sure that they were up to the standards, they had all the knowledge, skills and abilities that were needed to have that role and facilitated that training. And what that did is it enabled me to relocate from central Florida, which where I was was back home to Portland, Oregon, which is where I'm from. When I went to Disney, I wanted to leave Portland really bad. And I'm really glad that I did because it took me out of my comfort zone. I didn't know anybody, but going back home was certainly in the cards at that point. You know, 10 years later certainly had a lot of great work experience and I felt comfortable going back home and that that led me there and I can continue going down the path of my career. I mean, and it kind of all parlays. I love even how you mentioned Disney holds individuals and their, their staff and their, their employees to a high standard. Obviously Apple is very image based and they sell the product on the why. I mean, if you really think about, you know, I know you said iPhone4. I still have someone within my family who has an iPhone 4, but a product. Exactly. She's like, I know how to work it. But it is funny, you know, I just saw a meme where it's like iPhone 14, 15 and 16 and it's like they're all the same, you know, girls in the same dress. But they can continually build excitement with like adding one feature and people buy. Once you feel comfortable with a product, you see yourself going back year after year and getting all the different products. You think about how innovative Apple really is. There is a reason why they are that successful. And their marketing and advertisements is selling you the why, not the what. So I love that. So what comes next after Apple? So when I was working at Apple, I met a friend of mine was like, hey, I just who worked at the store. He's like, I actually am going to go do something else. I'm going to leave the Apple store and I'm going to go, there's an office down the street opening up for a company called Airbnb. Have you heard of this? And I was like, no, I haven't. What is Airbnb? He's like, oh, it's like, you can rent out your bedroom online and, like, or you can rent out an extra room or an extra house online. And they're. They're starting up a. An office here in Portland to help support, you know, folks in North America and around the world. And this was kind of the first time that they'd done this outside of San Francisco, which. Where the company was based. And I said, that sounds really cool. Kind of grassroots, starting from nothing, you know, whatever. So I interviewed and I went and met with them, and I luckily got a job answering phone calls and email tickets from folks that were using the platform and using the service. Was very young in the company, but we were building. We were still building the systems and processes. I don't know if they're used today, but they were building those systems and processes that supported the business at the time, which, of course, was growing through an amazing growth trajectory. But it was really cool being in, like, a startup environment and leaning on the experience that I had with some of the world's best organizations of, you know, service culture, hospitality, employee experience, and taking those elements into a company that was inspired by a lot of those and actually executing on. On behalf of that company. And within a couple months, I was able to show myself that, or show my. Excuse me, show the company what I was able to offer and was able to lean into a lot of different programs that included, you know, building out an employee recognition program for folks based on our service culture and based off the. The values that were really important to us. And, you know, the reason I was able to do that is because I asked a lot of questions and networked and. And made people, made sure that people knew who I was. And so when the conversation came about of who could do this, who could do that, maybe my name would come up. And, yeah, Airbnb was a really cool experience. I was exposed to a lot that. That. That thread of ambiguity was so true there because it was a product that was disruptive to an industry that hadn't really been disrupted before hotels or hospitality. And it was a platform relying on the kindness of others and offering up their spaces or their homes. And their element of trust was the currency. Right? And so being able to facilitate that was really special. But at the same time, when that trust was broken, I was the one that stepped in and helped facilitate those conversations. So that took, you know, some really good interpersonal savvy, some, some, some navigating murky waters at some times. But ultimately it was a really special experience and I was actually poached out of my job there, believe it or not, and went into. This is where my career kind of went. Like, I kind of took a left when I thought it might take a right. But it all makes sense in how it works. So keep in mind, I'm in Portland, Oregon, a town that's known for its livability, its nature, its beauty, its uniqueness, its ability to thrive. And one of the things that, that makes Portland do that, believe it or not, is the thread of the city, which I believe it to be. The public transit system in Portland. It's called TriMet. And they had an opportunity for somebody to come in to build and scale a customer service program for their public transit system. At the time, 70% of the folks that lived in Portland took transit because they wanted to, not because they needed to. And to me, public transit in general is a life connector. It improves the quality of life of any region. And so the opportunity to do that and lean on the experience that I just had at Airbnb, but with those strong principles and culture of like an identity based brand, which Portland knew who it was, Disney knew who it was, Apple knew who it was, really made sense. And so I was invited to come into the public sector for the first time into local government. And that was really interesting to say the least. I never thought that I would take my career that route, but it was really special being able to do that on behalf of the public, agnostic of who your customer was, your customer was the public. You didn't really have a choice in who did business with you. So I led a team that facilitated customer interactions over the phone, over email, over text message, social media. And at the time, it was before 2020 when all of that happened and it was a really special time. But then in 2020, that's when the world kind of was turned upside down and the job and the job changed and I had my responsibilities changed. But yeah, I want to take two steps back. I'm loving your story. Well, one, I do love, you know, going to a startup. There is so much to absorb and learn from that. How you mentioned being a disruptor. We talk in this program all the time about if you want to find what's next, if you want to find your place and how you can add value. It's finding a problem and solving it. And just like you mentioned, Airbnb disrupted the hotels. No One really wanted that. And I think, like, you think about Uber Eats and all of these, you know, these type of jobs that just make life easier. And we all have so much time that we. It's like wasting time to drive to the restaurant, pick up the food when you could be productive, and just get your stuff done. So it makes sense. And I want to ask. I know you dealt with putting out fires at Airbnb. What's the crazy. I mean, like, we've heard the hidden cameras in. In people's places. I've heard people who have rented out their apartments, and I have two friends in mind who these females left all their stuff in their drawers. I' I don't know why you would do that, but somebody stole all their, you know, their underwear and such, like, so that I imagine that type of phone call probably would have come to you. What's the craziest story with cleaning up a problem there? I think it's hard to think of one, but I think one thing that comes to mind is one call specifically that I remember taking is somebody arrived into. Into Paris from the United States, and they're staying in somebody's FL flat in Paris. And it was, like, early in the morning, because that's just how the flight worked. And as they approached the apartment, there was, you know, you know, things on the street that were not something they weren't used to. They. They had never been to another city or. Or place or neighborhood that was different than theirs. And I think walking somebody through that cultural. That cultural shock of going to a completely different country and walking up to somebody's house and knocking on the door and not having them answer is a moment of truth for that brand or for Airbnb at the time. And they weren't home. There's a mistake with the booking, and they weren't able to host them. And so, of course, they called us, and they had a lot of culture shock leading up to that. They were in a neighborhood, they had no idea where they were. And so, of course, there was a moment of truth for the brand regarding trust. And then there was also a feeling of vulnerability, of being in the middle of a foreign city that they'd never been to and going, I have all my stuff with me. What do I do? And that's an experience that I think ultimately makes you stronger. At the time, you might not see it, but being the voice of reason on the phone and being able to talk them through that was certainly something that was challenging, but also it was rewarding for me because I Got to hopefully restore any semblance of trust in the brand, but also give them the sense of comfort that I was on their side and that I was able to help them. And luckily we had tools and resources available and to assist them. And while that situation isn't, like, salacious and generally doesn't make the news, I think it's indicative of what the emotional connection is that folks have to a brand and how anybody can shake that at a moment's notice just by not living up to that promise or, you know, failing in some way, shape or form. That's one that. That's something that sticks out because I just remember being on the phone with this person who just. I remember feeling that sense of fear in her voice, and luckily we were able to take care of her. But yeah, it's. I think more it's the emotional connection or the emotional things that somebody goes through when that brand promise is broken. Sure. And, I mean, you're expecting it to go smoothly, especially when you're trying something new. And if it doesn't necessarily go that route, you lose that customer, you lose their faith. So that's why customer service is so important. And obviously it's going to lead to. As we continue on to where you are now, it's almost like when you're on the guest list and you're like, am I going to have an issue? Is my name going to be on the guest list? Maybe a little bit different than going all the way to Paris and not having a place to stay, but I totally understand that. Fear of the unknown. Yeah, fear of the unknown. So. So with public transportation, I love that, you know, you mentioned 70% is on transit. That's a big, huge number. You know exactly what you're working with. And it's interesting that you talked about COVID because obviously that's when everyone had to pivot. You know, you. I'm sure maybe there were certain things where you could get your groceries delivered and stuff, but I wasn't so aware of that. But during that time, obviously using services like Uber Eats and the grubhub to bring groceries, everyone had to pivot in order to make it work. And obviously in a public transportation business where people are all staying inside, that's obviously one of those things where you have to figure out, out and pivot. So I know you're one to pivot. Where do you go from there? Yeah. So from the public transit space, I was, of course, when Covid hit, my job completely changed. We had to pivot a lot of different things. But one thing that didn't change was our mission of actually serving the public at a time where they needed us the most. And that, of course, was getting doctors up to the hospitals, getting folks to where they needed to go. We used some staff for grocery delivery just because folks didn't have access to, you know, grubhub or, you know, Door Dash or Uber Eats because of financial constraints. And so we stepped in and tried to solve that problem. But my career in public service was about five years and was really rewarding. And, you know, it. It's. It's. It's something that I wish everybody could experience to. To see what it's like on the inner workings of something that we all pay into and see how it actually, you know, how the is made and how many steps it takes and how much red tape exists and all that stuff. But I knew that I wanted to go back to the private sector and continue growing and scaling programs, you know, nationally. And I stepped in, had an opportunity. I was approached with an opportunity to work for a boot company called Doc Martens, you may have heard of them, and they were also based in Portland. And so I made the transition back into the private space at a time in the company when it was growing and scaling really, really well and was able to step in and, you know, grow and scale a customer service program that supported the demand, but also ones that, you know, made sense. They were a wise investment and, you know, supported the brand. And about six months into that job, my partner, who we both lived in Portland, got a job offer down here in Los Angeles. So we relocated. I worked from home. I was talking to a computer screen all day, really started losing that connection with folks, and my mental health kind of started taking a little bit of a toll. And I said, you know, I need to get back out and work with, you know, the community again. And in my time in public transit, I worked a lot with the disabled community and, you know, sat on a committee that worked with, you know, specific groups of folks. And so, for example, what we would do is we would bring, we, hey, we want to buy a new bus. Let's bring some folks from the community in, get feedback on it, specifically from folks who are disabled, because the world just inherently isn't designed for you. Let's figure out a way to make that work. And I wanted to get back into that work. And so, candidly, my partner does work for Live Nation, and he saw this job posted where Live Nation was looking to step into this world of accessibility and our venues and and certainly threw my hat in because it has that hospitality through it, because that's what Live Nation is as far as a venue operator. We are a hospitality organization first and foremost in taking care of not only our fans, but our artists as well. But I knew I wanted to do it because I knew that there was space to grow and scale all these things. And through a rigorous interview process, not only was I hired, but somebody else that I was interviewing competitively against was also hired. The demand for this role was just so big that they actually split it up into two. And my colleague Chantel was hired as well and been in our roles for almost a year now. But that's what led me to today. And I will tell you, it all makes sense. While that path may not be linear, I didn't start in the industry. It all makes sense in how I landed here, with the work experience that I have, with the connections I was able to make and the network that I have have. It all makes sense why I landed here. You know, it's. It's fantastic too, because you're a great example of sometimes you take roads to the left, you take roads to the right, and you just have to kind of trust your gut. One thing I want to just right off the bat, give you kudos for is your growth mindset. The fact that you're. Some people will stay with a company forever, they'll be miserable, but it's. It's. It's like safe, right? And you were one like Airbnb new thing. I'm gonna go check that out in and bring my. My skills to there. Right? The. The transit like you. You're willing to go wherever is need be. You know, obviously, coming down to LA is amazing, having a partner who has that job with Live Nation, but, you know, you're going on a whim where you're not. Not. You don't have that job yet. But I, I do love the fact that what you're doing right now with accessibility, you got experience with that community through the transit program. Right. And hearing their needs. And what people don't really understand is the disability population is the largest minority out there. Say it again. Say it again. Right. And I know you'll likely say this too. It's the one population of folks that anybody can join at any time, regardless of who you are, where you come from, socioeconomic background, you name any qualifier. You know, anybody can join that. That minority temporarily or permanently. And you said earlier, you know, I had that experience, experience in public transit. I think all of us in Our work experience have worked with disabled folks like all of us have. No matter where you work, you might not know it because that disability might be invisible, might not be readily apparent. But, yeah, even at Disney, I remember going through training of. And this is very young in my career, is somebody's mobility devices an extension of their body? Just very, very principles that make sense to us now, but something when you're 21 years old, you might not learn at every job. And that was really special to me, and I carry that experience with me. But that thread of working with disabled folks has been almost a constant and very much a personal one, as well as somebody in my family became disabled as a result of a horrific accident. And so that amplified my desire to even do this more. I love that. And honestly, like, you have to have empathy. We talk about how important empathy is and how that will drive you in success in any career. And you're absolutely right. We work with people with indivisible disabilities. We work with people with disabilities that we can see. But it does take someone special to listen and put yourself in somebody's shoes in order to solve problems and in customer relations. And what you're doing, you are solving problems in trying to make it inclusive that everyone can have that same experience when they go to a show. I know when I met Austin Whitney, who's very big in this space as well, he talked about Coachella and being in a wheelchair, and I didn't really think about it. I mean, I was bitching and complaining, having to walk all over Coachella, how huge it is. And I'm thinking, like, man, trying to navigate through there in a wheelchair, that would be exhausting. And, you know, after speaking to him, I saw things in a. In a different light, and I think it's amazing. Chantal, obviously, is a great friend of Austin, and it speaks great volumes of the fact that both of you bring so much value. It's not very often that a company goes, all right, we can't make up our minds. Both of you are hired. Let's split it. But the reality is, and you mentioned it, Live Nation is huge, and there are tons of venues that really do have accessibility issues. I remember talking to the guitarist Eric of Portugal, the band, and Ed Mike is one of the students that went with me to that concert and at Crypto Arena. And obviously that is an accessible venue. But he talked about performing. For those who don't know, he's in a wheelchair and plays guitar with the band. But there were certain venues that did not have accessibility ramps he talked about having his bandmates have to lift him up in a wheelchair and put him on the stage. And he goes, there are tons of venues across America that are not accessible. And what people may not understand is Live Nation is so big, they have venues all over in all different states other than aeg. I think Live Nation is one of the biggest promoters in the live music space face. So let's talk about some of the challenges that you see in your job, you know, dealing with accessibility with Live Nation. Yeah. One of the things I think ultimately off the bat as this role was created, is that the gap that we are trying to solve is how do we bring the conversation inside the company. And ultimately we're taking the position of listening, listening and bringing folks in, such as Austin, Austin Whitney, who you mentioned, he's a close consultant to the work that we're doing with his company, 1050 Entertainment, Accessible Festivals. And through a network of folks, we're doing an immense amount of research as well. And within that research, we're learning, we're listening and trying to figure out how to navigate this. We know a couple things, things we're building trust from ground zero as far as live entertainment, live, you know, live music, you know, the world is inherently not accessible. It's not designed for folks with disabilities. We know that not only in life, you know, live music venues, but just things in general. Going to the grocery store, you know, getting a taxi or a cab, or just using any type of service, really. There's something designated because the law generally requires that. But is it easy to use? And so ultimately, what I'm looking to do is equip fans with the best information possible to attend and one of our, you know, shows at our venues and not have to think about the variety of barriers that may exist when existing out in the world. And we're doing that through, you know, a lot of listening, a lot of learning and listening to the disabled community. We also understand it's not a monolithic. If the one, you know, somebody's one opinion is not going to res. Represent the opinion of all, and it's bringing the conversation in. It's. You know, I. I had a boss that characterized me once as saying, you bang your fist on the table when it's not the popular thing to do, but people will listen. And if I can do anything in this role is. Is do that and advocate for folks that are generally misrepresented. You know, what has guided the live music industry for a long time is the law. The law was written nearly 35 years ago in regards to accommodations in public spaces. And while those laws are certainly, I don't want to say, etched in stone, I think there's always room for improvement. Those laws would have guided us. And to me, those laws check the box. But do they provide human connection? Do they provide a common. Do they provide that live music experience that is enjoyable at the same level that a non disabled person has? Those are all questions we're trying to answer and look into. I think, look, it's important to read the room as well. I'm one person complimented by another person doing this at a company that we're trying to learn, we're trying to grow, and we're trying to expand those offerings. But one thing that we're doing is creating relationships, like with you, Brett. You and I met at an event and had this conversation about your organization. And that's what's going to drive us, is community involvement and engagement. And that's where Chantelle comes in. The conversation of is leaning into those conversations and navigating it. Ultimately, if I had my way, I think what's really important, you mentioned the guitarist from Portugal, De man, and is seeing yourself on stage and seeing the disabled community up on stage. And so we're, you know, we're our friends over at Ramped recording artists and music professionals with disabilities. They're great friends. And we're trying to, you know, position ourselves in the community so we are surrounded by folks that can help, you know, guide us and, and, and, and, you know, teach us, but also at the same time, hold us accountable and, and tell us the unvarnished truth when we need to hear it. And I think that's, you know, as of right now, as of today, that's kind of the position that we're in. And I think when I think about, you know, the path that I've had leading up to today, I'm so glad that I've had all those variety of experiences because it has really prepared me for these conversations with the world's largest minority. And having, you know, representation at the table when those things are happening, I think is also really important. And we're trying to figure out, you know, ways to do that and the best way to do it because ultimately, ultimately, I believe that everybody belongs at a concert. Everybody belongs to enjoy something live. I know that when I go to a show, I like that feeling of just escaping, singing along with my favorite artist and forgetting about my outlook inbox, forgetting about the pressures of the world of my family, of my friends, of my partner. Of what's for dinner tomorrow, when's the credit card payment due. I just love that feeling of, of just being present. And if I can provide that for everybody, regardless of ability, I know that we'll have done something right. Amen. Absolutely. Beautiful. You know what's crazy too is we don't always think about all of the different accommodations. Like we had a guest on last week and she was talking about with cerebral palsy not being able to stand for a long time. And she's like, I'm that type of person who wants to be the first person in line to. I need to be on that barricade holding on in the front. And so she is one who is great at self advocating and she'll reach out to the venue and explain her situation and the accommodation she needs. And she says for the most part, when you do that, most venues will be accessible with you and work with you. But, you know, I didn't think about that waiting in those long lines to get into a venue when everyone's so excited, running in like. Like you can't run with everyone running to the front of the stage. So you do need some of those accommodations. I think with. When I was talking with Austin, he mentioned, like, people, some people have certain diets where you necessarily can't go into a venue and eat all the crap that's being sold there. And you need to bring in your own food. And some venues are like, no, you're not bringing in any outside food. We want you to buy the product. Product here. Right. So there are certain things that, you know, we need to take into accountability. One of the things that Austin said that there were two things that he mentioned with Coachella, just kind of putting in his two cents and change in the game. One was Ubers that were accessible to wheelchairs. And it was like, genius. You know, I didn't even know that existed. The other thing was that he got together with the sheriffs that were working at Coachella and from a ground up process were making sure to ticket those individuals that were using handicap passes that did not go along with the car. And I can't remember the number, but it was a staggering number of how much money they generated in tickets. You know what I mean? Like, there are a lot of people who were abusing tickets that, that process as well. So there's just lots of different, you know, things that we don't really take into account. I'm even thinking like those who can handle loud sound, you know, do you give out free earplugs? You know, I'm sure there's certain things. So obviously Live Nation has tons of venues throughout la. Do you guys split up the different venues? How do you guys. I mean, I can see you're one a great collaborator and you and Chantel can put your br together and solve problems. I mean, ultimately you're a problem solver in a customer service hospitality position. Do you separate the venues? Do you, do you have a certain area that you tackle? She takes on another one. Yeah. So as far as like my, my like domain of like what I cover, I do cover the whole country as far as things related to accessibility. So anybody listening, anybody watching or however you experience this podcast or recording, that's me. So please reach out if some. I don't regret saying that, but if there's an accessibility question, your venue is always the best way to answer. But I can always help too. But yeah, as far as accessibility, certainly my domain, my colleague Chantelle, who I wish she was here, feels weird to talk about her so much and she's not in the room, is looking at well being and inclusivity from that lens. So one thing that Chantel's working on is those with sensory needs. So some of our venues this year got certified through an organization called Culture City, which is an excellent organization helping facilitate those live experiences for folks that, you know, have sensory needs, including things like, you know, earmuffs or headphones or fidget devices or weighted blankets or some of those amenities that they provide. So again, folks who are neuro to diverse, but as far as my role, I spend a lot of time on an airplane and traveling around the country. And I think the most rewarding part about my role is actually just going into those accessible sections of the venue as that's starting to fill up and talking to people. I want to learn about their experience from buying their tickets, from how they parked, what that was like to getting in the venue, interacting with staff, staff, buying your merchandise and what, what that whole experience looks like. Because we can build and design and create all these things in this office that I work in here, but it's not until we get out into the ground and we actually see these things happening in real life and we can validate what we are, you know, aiming to do. And through that feedback, you know, we are learning a lot. We, we do, we actually take a survey of everybody who attends the show and we want to like, learn about their experience and you know, we ask questions regarding. And those are really valid. I see all of those around the country and I, you Know, in some cases respond to those folks and, you know, try to learn more about their experience and what we can do to facilitate, you know, a more frictionless experience. But yeah, my role keeps me on the road a lot and I just got off. For those who know Hoseer, I follow, I followed his tour for a little bit just around the country. Country. You know, one thing that if there's anything that we've gleaned and learned or I've tried to impart amongst folks, is every show, regardless of where you go, there's going to be disabled people there. I promise you that. Sure, you might think there's more disabled folks at a show that tends to skew a little older, but that's. That, that's. I don't want that to take away from folks that are attending, attending the Hoser, the Noah Kahns, the Post Malone shows. There's still disabled folks everywhere no matter where you go. So it's. I strategically am trying to hit all shows that represent a wide variety of folks, but also trying to shed light on, you know, folks who are younger, who are experiencing the world and going to concerts while being disabled. And there's a lot to learn and we're taking a lot of that and trying to plug it into some, some programming that we're doing, you know, into the future based off of their experience. You know, one thing I do want to just commend you on is the fact that you listen. And you mentioned earlier when we were talking that you're not afraid to ask the questions, right? Like, you know, you can pound on the, pound on the desk and get people's attention, but, but you are also willing to listen. I think that's a very important part of communication is we all want to talk, but we don't listen. And I think the fact that you're out there and talking to people for a population that feels invisible to actually have that actual connection, which I think is a big part of music. When we were doing Covid and people were sitting in cars and trying to see concerts, and I think people, the music industry obviously took a big hit, but people were craving that experience of being with others and the joy that you talked about because music, when you do go to an event, you do forget about everything like you mentioned earlier. And that's the beauty of live music. Naturally. I think we all just want connection regardless. That look differently for you or for me. But I think as humans, we do crave connection in, you know, I understand it's a concert's not for everybody. It's a huge social setting and can be a little overwhelming, but connection is just so important in general as humans and for again for folks that are have otherwise felt othered by society. Anything I can do to make that as normal as possible, you know, on equal playing field with everybody else to where those things hopefully wash away. That's beautiful. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I just went with my uncle to who's disabled to go see Lincoln park and he, he has a, a, a mobility issue. And so we, we pulled in, I, I, I picked him up at a, at a hotel and we, we parking $80 still and the handicap spot is still a mile away from the front entrance. So that was kind of interesting. And this was the first time I'm going to a concert and experiencing everything from his aspect. And so I said, so I, I didn't ask him like, but where, where are seats? And he's like oh, it's, I have se very top. And I said can, can you get up there? And he's like no, just watch. This is how you do it. So he went in there and there was somebody who handled accessibility. They really wanted to make sure it was legit. And then obviously there are. You transfer your tickets and then you, they give you other tickets to where it's accessible. And you know, he was sharing at the time he had a neck brace and he's like, I, I can't turn my neck. Is there a way to, to just have a seat where, you know, visually I could see the stage. So just kind of like you mentioned, putting yourself in someone else's shoes obviously is very important. I want to ask you, is there a mentor that comes to mind? Have you had a mentor in life? Yes, a couple. One is, it's so funny the emotions that come up when you think of that. Actually a former boss of mine from the public transit days, she may not know it, but she mentored me through some incredibly hard things and was my biggest cheerleader. And I still go to her when I'm not sure what way to go or which path to take or whatever. She's just somebody I can call and bounce an idea off of. Go. I want to talk about something weird like here's something I'm thinking of or here's, here's my initial emotional reaction to something that happened, you know, at work or, or even sometimes in um. And this is how I want to respond sometimes she's really led me in the right path. And there's one instance where I was really upset with my boss. In a decision that they made. And luckily we were able to talk about it eventually. But I was, I remember reaching out to her and I said, I'm going to send this email. I just wrote this three page email and I'm just going to let it, let him have it. Still in the outbox. Never got sent. But she advised and gave me the best advice of, like, you need an outlet for that frustration. Like, it's okay to be frustrated at work. These things are hard that we're doing, but professionally might not have been the best route. Yeah, don't, don't send the. Yeah, don't send. Yeah, whatever you do, don't send it. But still allow yourself to go through the emotions of what you're feeling. Just remember you're at work and still bring yourself to work and still be, you know, do what you do. But at the same time, like you have, there's a, a landscape you have to navigate. Right. And you know, that's some of the best advice she gave me was humanizing my experience and, and, and meeting me where I was at. And I, I really appreciate that. So, Anessa, if you're out there, please know that you made it. I love it. Let me ask you, is there a mantra, you know, you mentioned banging on the desk. Is there something that, you know, that you find yourself saying every day? Yes. And it's from somebody you may have heard of, Brene Brown, who I love and adore, I think, I think she says being clear is kind or, you know, clarity is kind or something along that. And as a leader, as a person, as somebody advocating for, you know, disabled folks, I think clarity and is the, the, the best form of kindness you can give someone someone and that kind of has that little hospitality tie in of, you know, taking care of folks. And I think I often think of that of, you know, when I'm having a hard conversation at work, am I being clear? Because being clear to the person receiving that is the nice thing to do. But also it's on the other side of the coin being clear with somebody when it's not delivering an answer that is, you know, the one that they're hoping for. It's also kind to give them clarity as to the why. And that has always led me since I remember hearing that because just stuck with me. And I think ultimately too, regarding just my role in general is remember the why, why I'm doing this on the hardest days when, you know, budgets are being discussed or, you know, logistics are challenging, is just remembering the why, why and and why I'm doing what I'm doing. And I think that that helps reset and. Yeah, those are the two things that, that, that immediately kind of just like came from my heart like that. I love it. I love it. I got one last question and then we got some music lovers who, who I'm sure are going to have some questions. I want to know what's the biggest piece of advice you would give to your younger son with all that you have experienced in all of your different industries. We talked about this earlier. Be a really good listener. And it's really easy to talk. It's really easy to fill space and tell somebody why you feel a certain way. But making sure that you're actually listening and understanding what's actually being conveyed and asking for clarity if you're need it, even if you're, you know, have had to have it repeated a couple times, just making sure you have an understanding of what's going on either in the room or in the conversation or, you know, whatever situation you're in. And by being fully, you know, participating in conversations, it's really easy to get distracted, specifically at work. But hell, even in my relationships, listening is really important. And. Yeah, and being a good listener is just as good as being, you know, a good talker. And 100%. So that. That's the best advice I can give someone is just get really good at listening. Yeah, no, 100% in any industry. All right, let's open it up to some questions. Let me see those hands. I see Presley's got the first one up. Go for it, Presley. Hi, John. I just like to have a quick question with you. That is, who. Tell me the artists that you worked with at Live Nation. Well, I mean, here at Live Nation, we. We work with a lot of artists, but some of the artists that I have worked with directly are actually disabled artists through an organization called Ramped. There's a couple artists that we've worked with through there. Lachi, who's the one of the co founders of. Of Ramped For Clarity, it's recording artists and music professionals with disabilities. She is an artist and activist and actress. Her resume goes long, but her perspective of being a disabled artist and performing in spaces that are inherently inaccessible are illuminating and just not mind blowing, but also just so sobering, if you will. Somebody you mentioned earlier, somebody in a wheelchair being lifted up on stage. We owe people their humanity. That shouldn't be happening. And so Lachi is a really, a big one, a big artist that I've worked with. We've also been connected to some other, bigger shows to where. Where accessibility is really important to the artist. And Coldplay is a great example of an artist that we have a connection with that does accessibility really well at their shows and we're learning a lot from them. So it's wide ranging. We're also cooking up some stuff soon that I can't wait to share. I love it. Super exciting. Clemente, I see your hand up. Go for it. Hi, John. Hi, Clemente. So first of all, I love music. Music. I listen to music daily. Like, it's been like so helpful for me. My question to you is, since you like work with venues, what would you say was the like, like all out of the venues you visited? Like, what is. What would you say, like, is the best venue? Venue to you? The best venue to me. Oh, that's a popularity contest. Um, I think it's. It's hard to pick one. But there I was actually just on a trip up in the Pacific Northwest right outside of Portland, Oregon, and I met an amazing group of folks that all used wheelchairs at the venue. And they had actually been to the venue for a show a couple weeks prior and they were actually photographed by our professional photography team. And I recognized them. I was like, oh my gosh. You guys are the folks in the photos that I. That I see for like our marketing or for advertisements. And having that level of connection with folks I thought was really, really cool and meeting some folks. And then as I was leaving that interactions, I walked by and somebody said, are you John? And I was like, yeah, I'm John. They're like, I know you from LinkedIn. From. I was like, oh my, my gosh. So that happened up in. In Ridgefield, Washington. And so I have a really fond memory of that, of that venue. But like I said earlier, like, I talk to folks no matter what venue I go to, so it's hard to pick one. But they're all, I think what's really cool and the one thing that's always consistent is there's always going to be some disabled folks there. And I will always find folks and talk to them and want to listen and talk about the artists we're going to watch together. Um, but yeah, the one up in the Northwest though. Number one, I'm from the Northwest, but number two, it was just a really cool interaction. So that, that sticks out in my memory for me. Love it. Great question. Any other questions? Or I'm going to go to closing speak now or forever hold your hand. Can I. I have a Question, Bret. Go for it, Vianay. Hi, Jon. So my question to you is, I heard that you guys were trying to incorporate more of the sensor help for those individuals who may have, like, trouble going to concerts with a very loud music. Is there something that you recommend right now that you're seeing that's something that we can do? Like, I know that we just have, like, community events, and during those events, sometimes we are around loud bands, and a lot of our consumers, like, they struggle with that loudness. Like, aside from earplugs, is there something else that we could, like, try to do to help them be there and be comfortable just as much as anyone else? Yeah, sure. That's a great question. Yeah, I think, you know, when I think of the senses that are engaged at a concert, sound is just one of them. Right. There's also lights. Generally, most shows are pretty. Or any event just has a lot of lights and a lot of visual distractions. So if there's any way that you can provide a space that just kind of takes that away and, like, I'm making this up. I don't, you know, know if this would work, but just like a little tent or like a place where somebody could just have that other sense of their eyes or the visual stimulation kind of taken away for a second in addition to, you know, any type of auditory or, you know, earplug kind of thing, I think that that. That can go far. I've seen that myself, be really helpful. That's why you see in some venues and including, you know, something that we're looking into as well is like a sen. So, yes, you can still provide headphones, but you're still in a room where all those lights, smell, and fog are all interacting. And then also, I think I saw Presley hold like, a fidget spinner or something that you can kind of hold with your hand. No, these are earplugs. Oh, those are earplugs. Yeah, these are earplugs. Also something to hold, too. But I have a fidget spinner on my desk. I use it all the time. But. But, you know, just little things here and there, and if you can put it in, like, a little kit, sometimes that really helps too. But, yeah, I think a removal from the, you know, the. The site and, you know, those. Those things can certainly help. Awesome. Thank you so much for the advice. Yeah, no problem. Perfect. I love it. You know, and again, I just want to point out a few things. Lachi, what an amazing individual. Best advice I ever got from her was, was be the disruptor it's okay to disrupt an industry, to bring change as long as you're doing it for the good and for the better of others. So definitely a hero and someone that I also respect. I think you are the perfect individual to be in this position. Jon, I cannot tell you I love hearing your story and how every job parlayed into something new, but you took something from every job and brought it to where you are right now. I think that is such a great role model for individuals who are trying to figure out where they're going to find their foot in the industry, where they're trying to take their passion and turn their passion into a paycheck. Obviously your passion is to make sure that everyone is inclusive. Everyone has a good time time. You are one amazing listener, empathetic individual. So I can see why you are successful in what you do. I just want to wish you continued success. I know you've got a lot of amazing things that you guys are going to be sharing with Live Nation around the corner. We look forward to to following that. I also want to give a plug to LinkedIn. You're hearing it people. It is a great way to network and to find like minded individuals who share your passions. And if you want to have that type of interview with someone who is done so many different industries and has found success in every different industry, let it be known. You need to listen and just like Jon said earlier, ask the questions. There is nothing wrong. No one expects you to know it all. And if you're going in there, like I got it all figured out, you don't have it figured out that so listen to people, ask the questions and don't be afraid to grow and put yourself in positions where it's not always, you know, easy. Like if there's an opportunity, go seize it. Go try it. Go learn from it. Go grow from it. So Jon, I just want to thank you once again for giving us an hour of your time in paying it forward and sharing your career roadmap. I want to thank everyone for joining us on Breaking the Business. And John, once again, thank you again. As we conclude another enriching episode, we hope you found inspiration in the stories shared today. Let's take a moment to honor Yes I Can's role in bringing Breaking the Biz to life. Yes I Can's commitment to empowering young people with disabilities through education, advocacy and mentorship shines brightly, paving paths of opportunity and dialogue. This podcast celebrates the organization's dedication to nurturing talent and facilitating impactful discussion. Breaking The Biz is more than a podcast. It's a part of Yes I Can's broader mission to amplify voices, dismantle barriers, and craft a world that's more inclusive and accessible for everyone. Each episode is a chapter in our shared narrative of progress, education, and empowerment, driven by the spirit of Yes I Can. Thank you for spending your time with us on Breaking the Biz. Continue to challenge the steps status quo and share stories that resonate until our paths cross again. Let's keep transforming aspirations into achievements and infuse every endeavor with optimism. Here's to advancing the landscape of the entertainment industry one episode at a time. I'm your host, William Felber. See you next time.